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Old 06-30-2012, 08:04 PM   #1
MadTinkerer
 
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Lightbulb Totally Had It Coming OMG SPOILERZ

So I've 100%ed the game, with all endings, logs, and cheevos (I cheated to get the fifth ending, the Copy command was too much of a red herring) and I've talked with the girls quite a bit and this is the conclusion I've come to: those jerks on the spaceship totally had it coming to them.

Now don't get me wrong: like I told Mute, I pity both Hyun-ae and her victims. Not all of them deserved to be wiped out as much as others. But here's the thing: you can't exterminate a society without exterminating the people in that society, and that society needed to be stopped.

Although the plot point about the tongue-cutting-out was what ultimately made Mute decide to sympathize with Hyun-ae in The Ultimate Best Ending, to me it's almost irrelevant. It may be what pushed Hyun-ae over the edge, but there's far worse going on here.

We're talking about a society that is the descendents of, and should still be, people who were at least at the cutting edge of 21st century medicine. THEY LIVE IN A SPACE SHIP. There was no excuse for diagnosing THE QUEEN with "an excess of wood" and ignoring the fact that their Vice-Queen was also dying. Not to mention how Hyun-ae, THE ONLY QUEEN AT THAT POINT, was treated when she came back to her adopted family. (I don't care how backwards your society is, or that Hyun-ae started out as technically a concubine, YOU DON'T TELL A QUEEN TO MAKE YOU TEA, . Maybe Hyun-ae couldn't "hate her to death", but I sure can.) Hyun-ae was right. There was no fixing this. No one could have fixed this, not even a guy because that guy would be shunned for his radical and confusing insistence that all women should be "prostitutes" (for starters).

Now, for those of you who still think Hyun-ae is a lunatic monster, think of this: these backward bastards were going to start a colony. What if, despite the fact that they probably don't know what bacteria are, they somehow succeeded? What if the ridiculous suffering continued on for another hundred generations? They are collectively guilty of at least manslaughter, if not outright murder, of two QUEENS in addition to the many, many others who suffered and died because of total medical ignorance. This ignorance was never going to be fixed in that society, because the rules of that society perpetually forbids any kind of challenge to the status quo, including radical ideas like "maybe wood isn't an element".

Do I need to point out again that we're not actually talking about an Earth-based feudal society that never had the medical knowlege to begin with, but PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING ON A SPACE SHIP. It's amazing that they didn't accidentally kill themselves long before, but I guess Mute could at least educate the captain/emperor enough so that he wouldn't try to deactivate the "Heads of Bulk" just to see what happened.

So yeah, Hyun-ae was more right than she realized. The nonsense needed to be stopped by any means necessary. People were dying. They were killing her. They were never going to stop on their own, because they were proud of her. If she didn't kill them all, they would just keep killing others, up to and including their own royalty. The crew of the ship were the real monsters.

Now, I don't blame Mute for her point of view. Number one: she's programmed to assist them, and even if she wasn't a "woman" she wouldn't be able to change them. Mute wasn't in a position to change anything, and was stuck with the idiots for several hundred years longer than Hyun-ae was. Mute certainly isn't wrong about the murder thing, but the fact is that the entire society was responsible for, at the very least, killing TWO OF THEIR OWN QUEENS.

Do I need to point out again that we're talking about a society THAT LIVES ON A SPACESHIP? They had it coming. Hyun-ae has nothing to feel guilty about. Regret, maybe. Sadness, obviously. Sorrow, indeed. But not guilt, because they had it coming.

That's all I have to say.

P.S. Oh actually, come to think of it: since Hyun-ae was the Queen at the time, does that mean that sovereign right enters into the discussion? Because queens can have people executed. Just a thought.
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:12 PM   #2
Baco the Taco
 
 
 
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I have only played enough to get ending 2 with 82% log completion but I do agree that the people had it coming. The experiences Hyun-ae went through were horrible on a physical and emotinal level. From her getting her tounge cut out to having her spirit broken were truly sad moments. Come to think of it, you are right that since Hyun-ae eventually becomes the Queen, she had the rigth to execute anyone with the exception of the King himself.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #3
therationalpi
 
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I can't help but feel like their society was still young after its "Reboot," and had a long way to go. Was there injustice? Yes. But there's been injustice throughout human history, it still exists today, and we can take solace in the fact that in general things have been getting better. Wiping out an entire society, especially one as isolated as theirs, because it hasn't had a chance to rectify its own wickedness seems rather harsh.

Besides that, consider the decent people, the innocent children, and the victims of systematic oppression that were killed right along with those who advanced said oppression.

Did someone deserve to die? Probably. Did everyone deserve to die? Not likely.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:13 PM   #4
limegonk
 
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Maybe it was a constitutional monarchy. The Queen of the Commonwealth doesn't get to just execute whomever she (dis)likes
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #5
MadTinkerer
 
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"I can't help but feel like their society was still young after its "Reboot," and had a long way to go."

Three hundred years? With access to (at least) a working public public rail system? External sensors? Doubtless many other science-fictiony things? Come to think of it, why do they even need peasants? They most certainly don't have normal Earth-like farmland of a spaceship! (Or is that a plot-hole? Oops.)

Here's the thing: maybe the first generation after the incident thought they had good reason to set up their society that way. Maybe after the memory wipe, they found a history book and mistook it for a manual on how they should run their society, like that Star Trek episode with the Gangster Planet. Regardless: how many generations does it take to realize how messed up the situation is? Or rather: if the situation is so messed up that they can't get their act together after three hundred years, then maybe they just had it coming.

See: I don't see it as a womens' rights issue thing(or certainly not exclusively a womens' rights issue). I see it as human beings failing to have any compassion for each other on a massive scale. That's practically a symptom of mass psychosis. Let's face it: they were a danger to themselves, to Hyun-ae, and to their own royalty. Regardless of whether you take the Divine or Social Contract theory of why Emperors are at the top of Empires, one of the most essential purposes of any Feudal society is to serve and protect the royal family. If that society becomes a threat to the royal family, usually there's war. The biggest problem here is that everyone was too ignorant to realize they were killing each other (forgivable) and also too stubborn to learn or acknowledge it (very much unforgivable).

"Did someone deserve to die? Probably. Did everyone deserve to die? Not likely."

Let's say you're being attacked by a gang of thugs (some of whom are most definitely trying to kill you). Only some of those thugs are actively trying to harm you, as you desperately try to run away. In fact, you know some of the members of the gang are only going along with the rest because they're afraid of them. Then they corner you. Then you happen to find a grenade. So now you have a choice: have compassion on the gang members that are not actively trying to kill you at this particular moment, or pull out the pin and stop the members of the gang that are actively trying to kill you at this particular moment.

Oh, and if you don't pull out the pin, at least some of the gang who are just going along with the rest will be abused and killed anyway. Do you really want to let this continue?

"Maybe it was a constitutional monarchy"

I was actually being facetious about asserting that being Queen justified her actions, but since you brought up the point: Constitutional Monarchies don't have peasants. So, no. This is a 100% feudal society with no constitution. But this isn't just any feudal society, it's an especially screwed-up feudal society. That's what justifies Hyun-ae's actions, in addition to the particular suffering she was put through.

Last edited by MadTinkerer: 07-03-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:15 AM   #6
limegonk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadTinkerer View Post
Three hundred years? With access to (at least) a working public public rail system? External sensors? Doubtless many other science-fictiony things? Come to think of it, why do they even need peasants? They most certainly don't have normal Earth-like farmland of a spaceship! (Or is that a plot-hole? Oops.)

...

I was actually being facetious about asserting that being Queen justified her actions, but since you brought up the point: Constitutional Monarchies don't have peasants. So, no. This is a 100% feudal society with no constitution. But this isn't just any feudal society, it's an especially screwed-up feudal society. That's what justifies Hyun-ae's actions, in addition to the particular suffering she was put through.
It's a fictional fantasy setting, about which we're simply not shown enough socioeconomics to draw any definitive conclusions. The peasants don't have to be farm labourers - that's the literal meaning of the word, but these days it's popularly perceived to mean any kind of manual labourer. Perhaps the ship's nobles refer to the entire underclass as peasants. Or maybe it's the closest English translation to the word as it stands in the backwards, regressed version of Korean they're using.

EDIT: Or maybe the peasants are the people who man the biovats and protein processors! And the... Soylent Green type carousel thing.

Last edited by limegonk: 07-04-2012 at 07:18 AM.
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