can the heavy get a little nerf

[KajiVena]

Originally Posted by ambosen

Works only if somehow the entire opposing team focuses on the distracting class,

They have to, otherwise, they'll die from them.

manages to not kill him,

Do you not understand how every class but Sniper sucks at long range?

and the distracting class is the farthest class forward, and maintains an active line of sight with the sniper.

Ye-no. I didn't know that spamming doorways and keeping a sticky trap required the players to be far forward.

Tat's a pretty large list of requirements,

Yeah, with your imaginary list of requirements it is.

and already pretty ulikely on much better designed 5 point control point maps then that which our friend somehow believes is the epitome of an easy sniper map despite routinely placing the sniper in fairly close range with neither cover nor concealment, nor eveneven elevation except on 1 or 2 areas which are much more easily accessed by classes capable of projectile jumping.

You're a horribad Sniper if you think you need to be at amazingly long distances, cover, or concealment when you've got amazingly long sightlines, accuracy, and a team.

[ambosen]

Well I do remember. You cussed me out for trying to uber you so we could both at least leave spawn. After the third unsucessful try due to all the rocket spam, and everyone else figuring going sniper against all of two soldiers dedicated to each spawn exit with a dispenser to keep them supplied, i switched to spy. Then I died a lot, because noone was moving forward to take advantage of the opening, yourself included.

6 people were able to easily keep a team of 12from even leaving spawn on that map. And all changing to heavy did was make you a very inviting target even when I ubered you. I watched both you and myself die at the hands of this spawn camp more then i could count, before i finally got sick and tired of both being cussed out for not going sniper or heavy when any idiot could see the futility of the act, and basically, only surviving the spawn doors opening due to other people catching the fire.

Whatever you think adding me is going to prove, it won't. That was the day I learned just how vulnerable heavies really are, how much cover concealment, and elevation makes even using the sniper offensively defensively possible. Even with you ubered, neither of us could leave spawn long enough to have a snowball's chance in hell.

[ambosen]

Do you not understand how every class but Sniper sucks at long range?

Do you not understand how i'm pointing out exactly how while playing other classes I kill them?

Ye-no. I didn't know that spamming doorways and keeping a sticky trap required the players to be far forward.

Does if you're going to be keeping the sniper you're allegedly protecting by doing so safe. If you're fairly close to the sniper, and he's in a visible area, you're just attracting fire to you both.

Yeah, with your imaginary list of requirements it is.

What's imaginary about what I know sniper players do to be able to protect themselves from me? I have made no claims either way about my ability to play sniper. Just how I kill them, as well as heavies.

You're a horribad Sniper if you think you need to be amazingly long distances, cover, or concealment when you've got amazingly long sightlines, accuracy, and a team.

And on the map you and Rg are trying to argue about, the sniper in question would have none of those advantages, or any of the ones I pointed out. the map's even distubingly one sided on a specific point.

And again, I must stress, i make no claims bout my abilities as a sniper. I don't play the class enough to know if I'm good or bad, because there's seldom if ever a shortage of them on any map, whether the level architecture favors them or not. I just know how I kill them, and how they keep me from killing them.

[Rg Toad]

Originally Posted by ambosen

Well I do remember. You cussed me out for trying to uber you so we could both at least leave spawn. After the third unsucessful try due to all the rocket spam, and everyone else figuring going sniper against all of two soldiers dedicated to each spawn exit with a dispenser to keep them supplied, i switched to spy. Then I died a lot, because noone was moving forward to take advantage of the opening, yourself included.

6 people were able to easily keep a team of 12from even leaving spawn on that map. And all changing to heavy did was make you a very inviting target even when I ubered you. I watched both you and myself die at the hands of this spawn camp more then i could count, before i finally got sick and tired of both being cussed out for not going sniper or heavy when any idiot could see the futility of the act, and basically, only surviving the spawn doors opening due to other people catching the fire.

Whatever you think adding me is going to prove, it won't. That was the day I learned just how vulnerable heavies really are, how much cover concealment, and elevation makes even using the sniper offensively defensively possible. Even with you ubered, neither of us could leave spawn long enough to have a snowball's chance in hell.

Now you're just blatantly lying, the first day i played this game i used my brothers configs, and to this day i still do. i haven't played this game with voice_enable 1 ever. I'm always in mumble having 2 different voice systems is just a complete pain in the ♥♥♥. I'd rather not deal with it.

[KajiVena]

Originally Posted by ambosen

Do you not understand how i'm pointing out exactly how while playing other classes I kill them?

Cool. Did you not know that any good Sniper would blow your head off at that distance before you could get off two shots?

Does if you're going to be keeping the sniper you're allegedly protecting by doing so safe. If you're fairly close to the sniper, and he's in a visible area, you're just attracting fire to you both.

You're not going to be keeping the Sniper safe. He doesn't need to be protected when no enemy will get close because of the spam and area denial preventing them from pushing in without dying already, let alone the precision point-n-click class that will blow your head off.

What's imaginary about what I know sniper players do to be able to protect themselves from me? I have made no claims either way about my ability to play sniper. Just how I kill them, as well as heavies.

You've never played against or seen an actual good Sniper or Heavy and you're underestimating them entirely because you've only played against terribads.

And on the map you and Rg are trying to argue about, the sniper in question would have none of those advantages, or any of the ones I pointed out.

Because Sniper does not need your imaginary advantages to blow your head off at long range where you suck at dealing any damage to him.

And again, I must stress, i make no claims bout my abilities as a sniper. I don't play the class enough to know if I'm good or bad, because there's seldom if ever a shortage of them on any map, whether the level architecture favors them or not. I just know how I kill them, and how they keep me from killing them.

Because playing against bad Snipers will tell you about anything that good Snipers do.

[Skaruts]

Originally Posted by KajiVena

You're not going to be keeping the Sniper safe. He doesn't need to be protected when no enemy will get close because of the spam and area denial preventing them from pushing in without dying already, let alone the precision point-n-click class that will blow your head off.

I would disagree with you in that every player that means something must be protected. A sniper may be out of the combat zone, but that doesn't mean he isn't a target. If he is a good sniper, he will be a sure target, and should not be forgotten.

There's such a thing as a sniper being under pressure, which happens a lot if enemy soldiers are aware of them. I, as a soldier, usualy send one rocket to the most threatening snipers I can see, even in the middle of a fight (except in close range figts, in which case I must rely on my erratic movement solely)

I'm a fairly good sniper, and I know how it is to be under pressure. Shots get negated, medics survive, charged shots on heavies get canceled, etc. Scouts and spies are a menace to a sniper, not necessarily for his life, but to negate any threat temporarily, and keep the pressure up. And let's not forget other snipers are looking for you as well, and they are a priority if you can't leave your position immediately.

And, according to my experience, there's only one class that is worth dying to get the kill, and that is the medic.

[A Ghost]

Originally Posted by Rg Toad

All but your demo strategy require the heavy to be dumber then you. If you have the high ground why would the heavy fight you? That's the equivalent of fighting a rev-d heavy point blank.

Also LOL at your pyro "strategy" who the ♥♥♥♥ would shoot at you or stay there for upwards of 4-5 seconds?

So the Heavy is broken because he retreats when he's been out-played?

Okay.

[gomixy]

Originally Posted by A Ghost

So the Heavy is broken because he retreats when he's been out-played?

Okay.

Heavy is broken because it requires no skill to kill someone with heavy yet its incredibly hard to kill a heavy who has basic tracking skills.

Small spin up removed ambush weakness
GRU remove slow travel speed.

[ΩBSOLETE]

Originally Posted by Showmeyamoves

Entire game balanced.

tf_weapon_criticals 0

[Skaruts]

Originally Posted by gomixy

Heavy is broken because it requires no skill to kill someone with heavy yet its incredibly hard to kill a heavy who has basic tracking skills.

Would require you quite some skill, as a heavy, to kill me. I can asure you of that.

It's funny how people talk like they master the classes, and everything is so easy in said classes.

[Rg Toad]

Originally Posted by A Ghost

So the Heavy is broken because he retreats when he's been out-played?

Okay.

No he's broken because, there are very few and far apart times when, a heavy "is ♥♥♥♥ed" and when he is it's, his own fault for being in that situation. And the fact that he isn't forced, to fight where he isn't strong basically means he can just engage in fights where he's guranteed to win. I.E.) granary 2nd, normally you hold yard right? while a team playing around a heavy can just say "♥♥♥♥ that we're gonna hold inside 2nd because a heavy can basically do 300dps on anyone within that building, and he can mow you down or force you out easily.

[Rg Toad]

Originally Posted by Skaruts

Would require you quite some skill, as a heavy, to kill me. I can asure you of that.

It's funny how people talk like they master the classes, and everything is so easy in said classes.

Alright my 6's or HL team vs yours pushing 2nd 2v2 me and a medic sir.

[A Ghost]

Originally Posted by Rg Toad

No he's broken because, there are very few and far apart times when, a heavy "is ♥♥♥♥ed" and when he is it's, his own fault for being in that situation. And the fact that he isn't forced, to fight where he isn't strong basically means he can just engage in fights where he's guranteed to win. I.E.) granary 2nd, normally you hold yard right? while a team playing around a heavy can just say "♥♥♥♥ that we're gonna hold inside 2nd because a heavy can basically do 300dps on anyone within that building, and he can mow you down or force you out easily.

I could barely understand a word of that, but it looks like you're saying that a Heavy can't lose in situations where he's decided to hold a point where an enemy must engage in him in close-combat if they choose to engage him at all. Am I close?

[Skaruts]

Originally Posted by Rg Toad

Alright my 6's or HL team vs yours pushing 2nd 2v2 me and a medic sir.

You didn't get the point.

[Rg Toad]

Originally Posted by A Ghost

I could barely understand a word of that, but it looks like you're saying that a Heavy can't lose in situations where he's decided to hold a point where an enemy must engage in him in close-combat if they choose to engage him at all. Am I close?

I'm saying you can easily choose your fights, and in EVERY league map, for U.S. EU, AUS, or AF 6's or HL, there is ATLEAST one place in a map, where a heavy is in an area where he can hit everyone easily, and they are forced to take him on in his prime.


However, scout, spy ,pyro, engi, solder and sniper have no such luck with that. The only other class that does is demo, who's got incredibly glaring downsides, and is the "most versatile" class in the game as said in dev comm's