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Old 07-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #46
Satoru
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Shinbusho View Post
ESEA client is a Trojan.
While ESEA isn't nearly as awesome as people make it out to be, it's hardly a 'trojan'
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by freaka20 View Post
vac isnt bad. infact, it have banned almost 1million users.

http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics
Those are totoally unreliable statistics.

VACBAnned reports only on individual accounts that are both banned and have been actively ientified on vacbanned.

This has little bearing on either the number of individual users that have been banned, nor the actual number of accounts banned.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:17 PM   #48
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Those are totoally unreliable statistics.

VACBAnned reports only on individual accounts that are both banned and have been actively ientified on vacbanned.

This has little bearing on either the number of individual users that have been banned, nor the actual number of accounts banned.
The service periodically goes through the entire space of steam account. So it does show fairly accurately the number of steam accounts that have vac bans on them.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Satoru View Post
The service periodically goes through the entire space of steam account. So it does show fairly accurately the number of steam accounts that have vac bans on them.
It still isn't a very useful statistic as there is no way of knowing how many accounts have used cheats.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Anarchisteve View Post
It still isn't a very useful statistic as there is no way of knowing how many accounts have used cheats.
Even conservatively, it describes the absolute lowest number of accounts that have VAC bans on them. More accurate enumeration is simply going to INCREASE the amount of VAC bans detected, not decrease.

http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics

At this point 1.5 million accounts have VAC bans on them. A more careful analysis isn't going to make that number go down given the number of unbanned accounts is only 2k.

As long as you understand what the stat is measuring it's not misleading. It simply is measuring the # of Steam accounts that have VAC bans on them. It does not show 'individuals' nor does it show bans on a per game basis.

To measure 'the number of accounts that have used cheats' universally is of course a silly measurement and impossible to determine. Obviously you can't count what you cannot detect. You can estimate but that's hugely problematic as it highly depends on sampling, confirmation bias, etc.

Last edited by Satoru: 07-22-2012 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Satoru View Post
Even conservatively, it describes the absolute lowest number of accounts that have VAC bans on them. More accurate enumeration is simply going to INCREASE the amount of VAC bans detected, not decrease.

http://vacbanned.com/view/statistics

At this point 1.5 million accounts have VAC bans on them. A more careful analysis isn't going to make that number go down given the number of unbanned accounts is only 2k.

As long as you understand what the stat is measuring it's not misleading. It simply is measuring the # of Steam accounts that have VAC bans on them. It does not show 'individuals' nor does it show bans on a per game basis.

To measure 'the number of accounts that have used cheats' universally is of course a silly measurement and impossible to determine. Obviously you can't count what you cannot detect. You can estimate but that's hugely problematic as it highly depends on sampling, confirmation bias, etc.
I wasn't trying to say that their number was inaccurate, just that without knowing how many cheaters there are, the number of bans doesn't really say a lot. And yes, I'm aware that you can't know the number of cheaters to any worthwhile degree of accuracy.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:18 PM   #52
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Still doesn't solve the overall issue. Some don't like to be blatant and it's sometimes hard to tell a good cheater from a really good player.
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:33 PM   #53
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Still doesn't solve the overall issue. Some don't like to be blatant and it's sometimes hard to tell a good cheater from a really good player.
Sometimes it's hard to tell an actor from a real person's feelings. Your point? People and software can and will be fooled and it's always a cat-and-mouse game.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #54
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Still doesn't solve the overall issue. Some don't like to be blatant and it's sometimes hard to tell a good cheater from a really good player.
At least this sort of cheat is a lot less annoying.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:50 AM   #55
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Some people MAY be able to bypass vac, lets see them bypassing reports from 30 players B)
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:44 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by TarePare View Post
Some people MAY be able to bypass vac, lets see them bypassing reports from 30 players B)
And what exactly do you think those reports do? Do you really believe someone is checking the reports? Like valve is going to check thousands of reports daily. This button is there to make you feel better. On valves end of that button is a /dev/null command waiting for your report.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:55 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TarePare View Post
Some people MAY be able to bypass vac, lets see them bypassing reports from 30 players B)
And lets also see loads of good players banned because 30 people mistook them for cheaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoardGeek View Post
And what exactly do you think those reports do? Do you really believe someone is checking the reports? Like valve is going to check thousands of reports daily. This button is there to make you feel better. On valves end of that button is a /dev/null command waiting for your report.
The reports are used to identify potential cheaters so they are scanned deeper and more frequently and also for statistical purposes. It is not just to make people feel better.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:23 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by BoardGeek View Post
And what exactly do you think those reports do? Do you really believe someone is checking the reports? Like valve is going to check thousands of reports daily. This button is there to make you feel better. On valves end of that button is a /dev/null command waiting for your report.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...0&postcount=16

I really hope we don't have to do another 'reports don't work' thread again.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:46 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Anarchisteve View Post
The reports are used to identify potential cheaters so they are scanned deeper and more frequently and also for statistical purposes. It is not just to make people feel better.
No, they "might" be; and as been discussed ad nauseum, we don't know what, if anything, that hypothetical "deeper / frequent" scanning does. Arguably, the fact that I have had countless VAC games ruined on a long-term basis by cheaters would demonstrate that "it doesn't do anything useful".
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:04 AM   #60
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No, they "might" be; and as been discussed ad nauseum, we don't know what, if anything, that hypothetical "deeper / frequent" scanning does. Arguably, the fact that I have had countless VAC games ruined on a long-term basis by cheaters would demonstrate that "it doesn't do anything useful".
Refer to my post above
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