Linux client = better Mac client?

norman_6 · 08-02-2012, 06:36 AM

Just like the title says, what does anyone think? I know I have been very happy that valve games and a number of other publishers have offered OSX versions of their games through steam. However the client itself is still full of glitches and hiccups, some of which have been there since the beginning of Steam for mac. So my wishful thinking is that instead of putting resources into fixing issues, they are building a more robust client for Linux that would be easier to port over to mac or maybe even windows?

dpgirl · 08-02-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman_6

Just like the title says, what does anyone think? I know I have been very happy that valve games and a number of other publishers have offered OSX versions of their games through steam. However the client itself is still full of glitches and hiccups, some of which have been there since the beginning of Steam for mac. So my wishful thinking is that instead of putting resources into fixing issues, they are building a more robust client for Linux that would be easier to port over to mac or maybe even windows?

what is the basis for the speculation? Why would a Linux client be easier to port?

Skwink · 08-02-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpgirl

what is the basis for the speculation? Why would a Linux client be easier to port?

Well, I don't know much about OS's, but Linux and OSX are both UNIX based or something like that.

Does the Linux client have smooth scrolling?

Mangr0v3 · 08-02-2012, 11:26 PM

lol, if done right the two (Linux Steam and Mac Steam bugfixes) ought to be mostly completely separate.

dpgirl · 08-03-2012, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwink

Well, I don't know much about OS's, but Linux and OSX are both UNIX based or something like that.

Does the Linux client have smooth scrolling?

I think software development is a lot more complicated than you believe... They could try to use some cross-platform tools to simplify the differences, but that results in a less than optimal version for each. If they do the best job they can for performance and the interface... the coding for OS X is a just a lot different than for Linux, about as different as it is for Windows as well.

Mr Boogeyman · 08-03-2012, 08:19 AM

Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with Direct3D = 270.6 FPS
Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with OpenGL =303.4 FPS
Left 4 Dead 2 on Linux (Ubuntu 12.04) = 315 FPS

looks like ill be switching to Linux

SilverMink · 08-03-2012, 01:20 PM

Since both OSX and Ubunto use OpenGL instead of DirectX, yes I believe the two will benefit each other.
Then again if the Linux client is less buggy then the Mac's then people could also dual boot.

rossip · 08-03-2012, 01:52 PM

I have a better question, why is there a Valve Linux Team blog and not a Valve Mac Team blog?
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com

apdonato · 08-03-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skwink

Well, I don't know much about OS's, but Linux and OSX are both UNIX based or something like that.

Does the Linux client have smooth scrolling?

linux is not unix, it emulates multitasking just like windows does. The only true unix platforms are solaris and mac os x...

even though mac os x is considered only as a "spinoff" to unix

stevethepocket · 08-03-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Boogeyman

Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with OpenGL =303.4 FPS

Hang on. I didn't know you could do that! What's the trick?

Spirit_Stiff · 08-03-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossip

I have a better question, why is there a Valve Linux Team blog and not a Valve Mac Team blog?
http://blogs.valvesoftware.com

I think they're really relying on success with Linux as a backup for a failure with Windows 8

dpgirl · 08-03-2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apdonato

linux is not unix, it emulates multitasking just like windows does. The only true unix platforms are solaris and mac os x...

even though mac os x is considered only as a "spinoff" to unix

Actually Mac OS X is a certified UNIX 03 OS.

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/r.../brand3591.htm

apdonato · 08-03-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpgirl

Actually Mac OS X is a certified UNIX 03 OS.

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/r.../brand3591.htm

even better

Mr Boogeyman · 08-03-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevethepocket

Hang on. I didn't know you could do that! What's the trick?

-d3d use the Direct3D engine
-gl use the OpenGL engine

Ferazel · 08-03-2012, 10:18 PM

I think in order to understand VALVe's position towards Linux now, and their "used to be ethusiasm" for the OS X side of the equation you need a history lesson. When Steam was being developed for OS X and released, there was no app store for OS X, and Steam saw another computing market that they could target. Then Apple started its OS X -> iOS conversion. However, that involved directly releasing a competitor to their Steam that is sanctioned by the Operating System. This is even more prevalent with Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion. Apple wants a good majority of apps to only be distributed through the Mac App store. I'm sure that VALVe feels burned by Apple, and doesn't feel excited to work on Apple products like they were initially as they have been shut out of the Mac ecosystem. Not to mention that driver updates and improvements are VERY slow coming from Apple & friends.

Now they see another opportunity with Linux and they're excited for it. They have direct access to the driver writers and they can all nerd over linux. With how open Linux is, even though Ubuntu has it's own app store, I seriously doubt Ubuntu is going to go to Apple's measures of shutting down access to 3rd party applications distribution networks. And VALVe can breath a sigh of relief.

For all of the optimizations that VALVe does to their OpenGL renderer... the OS X clients might get those updates too... about 3 years from now when they support the same OpenGL features that Windows and Linux does. If VALVe continues to port their products over and not abandon the platform with their 1st party titles (I doubt they'd completely abandon Steam for quite a while).

08-02-2012, 06:36 AM	#1
norman_6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 64	Linux client = better Mac client? Just like the title says, what does anyone think? I know I have been very happy that valve games and a number of other publishers have offered OSX versions of their games through steam. However the client itself is still full of glitches and hiccups, some of which have been there since the beginning of Steam for mac. So my wishful thinking is that instead of putting resources into fixing issues, they are building a more robust client for Linux that would be easier to port over to mac or maybe even windows?

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08-02-2012, 11:26 PM	#4
Mangr0v3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Reputation: 4237 Posts: 13,590	lol, if done right the two (Linux Steam and Mac Steam bugfixes) ought to be mostly completely separate.

08-03-2012, 08:19 AM	#6
Mr Boogeyman Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 13 Posts: 405	Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with Direct3D = 270.6 FPS Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with OpenGL =303.4 FPS Left 4 Dead 2 on Linux (Ubuntu 12.04) = 315 FPS looks like ill be switching to Linux

08-03-2012, 01:20 PM	#7
SilverMink Join Date: Aug 2007 Reputation: 156 Posts: 634	Since both OSX and Ubunto use OpenGL instead of DirectX, yes I believe the two will benefit each other. Then again if the Linux client is less buggy then the Mac's then people could also dual boot.

08-03-2012, 01:52 PM	#8
rossip Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 224	I have a better question, why is there a Valve Linux Team blog and not a Valve Mac Team blog? http://blogs.valvesoftware.com

08-03-2012, 10:18 PM	#15
Ferazel Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 9 Posts: 130	I think in order to understand VALVe's position towards Linux now, and their "used to be ethusiasm" for the OS X side of the equation you need a history lesson. When Steam was being developed for OS X and released, there was no app store for OS X, and Steam saw another computing market that they could target. Then Apple started its OS X -> iOS conversion. However, that involved directly releasing a competitor to their Steam that is sanctioned by the Operating System. This is even more prevalent with Gatekeeper in Mountain Lion. Apple wants a good majority of apps to only be distributed through the Mac App store. I'm sure that VALVe feels burned by Apple, and doesn't feel excited to work on Apple products like they were initially as they have been shut out of the Mac ecosystem. Not to mention that driver updates and improvements are VERY slow coming from Apple & friends. Now they see another opportunity with Linux and they're excited for it. They have direct access to the driver writers and they can all nerd over linux. With how open Linux is, even though Ubuntu has it's own app store, I seriously doubt Ubuntu is going to go to Apple's measures of shutting down access to 3rd party applications distribution networks. And VALVe can breath a sigh of relief. For all of the optimizations that VALVe does to their OpenGL renderer... the OS X clients might get those updates too... about 3 years from now when they support the same OpenGL features that Windows and Linux does. If VALVe continues to port their products over and not abandon the platform with their 1st party titles (I doubt they'd completely abandon Steam for quite a while).