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08-09-2012, 05:55 PM
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#4006 | |
 Join Date: Dec 2009
Reputation: 398
Posts: 2,556
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Quote:
Publishers would of forced EULA changes on retail games if they could but they didn't have a viable way until now. |
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08-09-2012, 06:10 PM
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#4007 | |
 Join Date: Jul 2011
Reputation: 20
Posts: 53
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Quote:
You cannot enter into a contract by omission of an act. I could try to give proper explanation why, but for now just read the wikipedia article on contracts. Instead I'll give you an example: Now, imagine that somebody reads (but do not agree to) the new SSA and this breaks his heart. Literally. He dies. After 30 days the steam system will register that he have agreed to the new SSA. As result he had agreed on a contract post-mortem. That is an absurd. (Only insane court may rule otherwise, but that's possibility too.) The only way for this clause to enter into effect is by "passive acceptance" (or acceptance by performance of a condition). In this case it would be the use of the service after the 30 days. In other words, the new terms would apply in the moment he uses the service under the new terms. Now... in some jurisdiction even the "passive acceptance" is not good enough. That is why the license box requires you to actively say that "I accept" the new terms. And even that is not enough for other jurisdictions... So, as long as you voluntary do not use your steam account you have quite good case that you are not bound by the new rules. Just in case there is some kind of new development. |
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08-09-2012, 06:24 PM
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#4008 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Reputation: 20
Posts: 53
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The situation is different with the TOS, because usually TOS is presented to you before you can use the service. These fine moments are also the reason people are discussing that they have bought e.g. Orange Box and then they have went and created a Steam Account. And this is why recent Orange Box packages do have text instructions that you must go and read the SSA, before opening the box. |
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They make it sound like EULA's and licence agreements haven't been protecting games publishers for a good 20 years.|
08-09-2012, 06:42 PM
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#4009 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Reputation: 17
Posts: 88
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"What Are the Characteristics of a Contract for a Sale of Goods?"
Contracts for the sale of goods within the United States are governed by Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). The UCC is the standard set of business laws that regulate financial contracts. Characteristics of a contract for the sale of goods include identification of quantity, price terms and delivery terms. If a party breaches a sales contract, parties have extensive legal remedies. UCC 2 contracts are considered more flexible than their counterpart contracts for services, which are governed by common law. Contract Sales contracts can be formed orally if they are under $500 or capable of being performed within one year. There must be a "meeting of the minds" between both parties to a sales contract and each party must objectively believe the other is intending to be legally bound. Contracts for amounts in excess of $500 or for one year or more must be written and signed by both parties. A contract is formed when one party makes an offer and the other party accepts. There must be an exchange between the parties of something for value, known as consideration. Terms The one term that must be present in a sales contract is a quantity term. The quantity term must set forth the amount of the product to be shipped or supplied. Parties should include a price term as well. Delivery terms are often included, such as whether the buyer will pick up the items at the seller's place of business or if the seller will arrange delivery via freight carrier or some other means. Leniency in Performance Article 2 of the UCC is business friendly and encourages parties not to hesitate in forming contracts. Slight glitches in performance will not result in an automatic breach and parties are generally free to fix the problem within a reasonable time. If a buyer orders 10 red jackets in size large, for instance, and the seller sends 10 red jackets, 8 of which are size large and 2 of which are size extra-large, if buyer notifies the seller of the deficiency, the seller will generally have an opportunity to fix the mistake. Remedies In the event a breach of contract takes place, the UCC provides a wide variety of means for the non-breaching party to recover the money he lost in the deal. These are known as legal remedies. Depending on the situation, remedies for breach are designed to place the non-breaching party in the position he was in before the other party breached the contract, e.g., if a party expected to sell 10 red jackets and due to supplier's breach was unable to sell any red jackets, the buyer would have a cause of action for the price of the 10 jackets. Of course, the court will need evidence of the injured party's damages, such as sales records indicating the usual sales value of red jackets. Read more: What Are the Characteristics of a Contract for a Sale of Goods? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8456621_cha...#ixzz236REgzjT |
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08-09-2012, 06:44 PM
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#4010 | |
 Join Date: Dec 2005
Reputation: 116
Posts: 931
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08-09-2012, 06:49 PM
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#4011 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2011
Reputation: 529
Posts: 689
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Quote:
By your post I can easily agree with you that a dead person cannot choose either way and therefore can be considered to have 'not acknowledged' acceptance' of the agreement. But as he's dead it doesn't matter. Perhaps my revised question should be worded thus: Hi si1viu. Taking into account that you are probably not going to be dead when the 30 day period is up, are you going to ever play one of your games again as this would be acknowledged as acceptance of the latest SAA? Or are you going to cancel your account in the allotted 30 day period - which would be finite proof that you are pledging your allegiance to your beliefs rather than the disgusting and disgraceful new Steam SAA you choose to hate with all your heart and political passion. An answer would be appreciated here if you can bare to make another post on this thread...Taking into account you haven't died since of course. Please let us know if you do as I don't want to appear I am harassing the dead. Better? Last edited by Fat Bob: 08-09-2012 at 06:53 PM. |
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08-09-2012, 06:52 PM
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#4012 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Reputation: 17
Posts: 88
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Uniform Commercial Code Article 2
U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/article2.htm#Buyer What Is Article 2 Of The U.C.C.? http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Lega...f-the-ucc.html Last edited by gfreeman1: 08-09-2012 at 07:01 PM. |
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08-09-2012, 07:35 PM
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#4013 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Reputation: 20
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Quote:
You cannot accept a contract by omission. The contract requires a meeting of the minds (agreement of both parties) or by performance of a condition (doing something to confirm). It cannot be automatic. This is the whole point. Honestly read some of the post and links by @gfreeman1 , they are worth reading carefully. The basics are not that complicated and they actually make sense. And honestly... I don't understand your obsession with picking on si1viu. Maybe you should answer your own question first. Have you canceled your account "Fat Bob" or have you agreed on the SSA? You may have said it already, but digging it up would be hard. But honestly, it would be better if you just stop nitpicking on him. At least your 5 last post have nothing in relation with the discussion, just personal quarrels - demanding answer or actions. Stay on focus, find some way to be useful. Thank you very much. Last edited by iive: 08-10-2012 at 02:45 AM. |
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08-09-2012, 07:42 PM
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#4014 | |
 Join Date: Jul 2007
Reputation: 27
Posts: 163
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08-09-2012, 07:43 PM
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#4015 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Reputation: 116
Posts: 931
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Quote:
Last edited by Whippy: 08-09-2012 at 07:49 PM. |
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08-09-2012, 07:44 PM
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#4016 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Reputation: 27
Posts: 163
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Quote:
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08-09-2012, 08:19 PM
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#4017 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Reputation: 20
Posts: 53
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Quote:
When you buy a paper book, you won't find license in it. You need one as the content of the book is covered by copyright. The license is actually implied. Same thing applies for movies and software. The problem with EULA is that it tries to trick you into thinking that it would give you something you don't already have. And it would reinforce this by refusing to work unless you agree. The reject&return clause is actually a fail safe, just to hide the fact that they have actually forced you into a linked hidden contract. The bad side is that this practice went unchallenged long enough for people to actually accept the EULA as status-quo. And even some courts to create bad precedents. The absurd goes so far that some windows installers demand acceptance of the GPL license and refuse installation when rejected. The GPL license actually grants unconditional right to use the program, it doesn't need to be accepted. It only governs distribution. The EULA may be needed only in cases where you do something with the software that is not implied by the "default" license. Like modifying it yourself or making extra copies (not that I've ever seen it). The EULA may also serve as TOS (e.g. online play). Last edited by iive: 08-10-2012 at 09:56 AM. |
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08-09-2012, 09:04 PM
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#4018 |
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2012
Reputation: 17
Posts: 88
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EULA in relation to copyright fair use rights
Hello, Steam community:
I found some very useful links that will hopefully help to explain copyright fair use rights in relation to the EULA. I found the case of Krause v. Titleserv to be quite enlightening. Let me know if it helps you! Judge Knocks EULAs Back A Bit from the not-so-binding-after-all dept http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20050405/1640210.shtml Limiting Software Licenses http://madisonian.net/archives/2005/...ware-licenses/ United States Court of Appeals,Second Circuit KRAUSE v. TITLESERV http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1357970.html Copyright Fair Use Explained http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html Last edited by gfreeman1: 08-09-2012 at 09:10 PM. |
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08-09-2012, 09:38 PM
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#4019 | |||
 Join Date: Jun 2006
Reputation: 637
Posts: 2,274
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Quote:
I mean, not a lot of what you're bringing up is applicable to this situation, and the cases you've just been citing are A) from seven years ago (so even if they haven't been overturned, new EULAs have learned from their mistakes), and B) focused on very specific factual scenarios (for example, Krause probably wouldn't apply to Valve's EULA, since the wording of their EULA was very clearly flawed). ...and, uh, fair use is a defence for copyright infringement. I can sort of see a very tangential argument about...I don't know, using licences outside of their official purposes without leaving yourself liable to be sued by the copyright holders, but it might be too much of a stretch to say that it applies to anything happening here. Quote:
While Valve retains the right to change their EULA at any time, we still ultimately have to agree to the EULA every time they make a change. So with any revision to the EULA, the terms that we are being asked to agree to are always clear and certain (ie. We agree to terms A, B and C. If A, B or C change, we'll be asked if we want to agree to the modified A, B and C. There's no fatal ambiguity here). Quote:
To oversimplify it another way: pressure in contrating is usually perfectly fine (it's pretty much expected), provided that the pressure isn't illegitimate (such as threatening to kill us or steal our stuff if we don't agree). The termination of our licences or accounts are (arguably) not illegitimate in a legal sense - we've always known that if we don't agree to Steam's service agreement, we can't use Steam, and that if we can't use Steam, we can't use our Steam-tied licences. For that matter, some courts would view giving up your account as a perfectly reasonable option to take in the face of such pressure, and thus wouldn't rule that your agreement to this SSA was under duress. Last edited by Planeforger: 08-09-2012 at 10:03 PM. |
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08-09-2012, 09:43 PM
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#4020 |
Volunteer Moderator - I was on TV!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Reputation: 4592
Posts: 22,879
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Folks, this thread is about the Steam EULA--specifically the changes to the EULA. Do not derail the thread in any form or fashion.
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Have Fun! |
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