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Old 09-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #1
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Demoman in MvM advice

Hello guys
Ive been playing Pyro mainly in MvM and it's fun, but I'd like to try my second favorite class: the Demoman.
However, I'm always hesitant as to which Nade laungher is best: the standard one or the Loch-n-Load? I see a lot of people using the LnL in MvM... much more than in the regular game.
Secondly, I'm not sure what upgrades I sohuld be buying first?
Can anyone point me towards a good Demoman MvM guide or give me a quick tutorial?

I've played Medic too, which is my 3rd favorite class, but that's fairly easy to amster on MvM

Thanks, mates!
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #2
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There are lots of different demoman builds, but I find the one that offers the most utility is a sticky demoknight. Upgrade sticky damage, resistances, and crit and health on kill with the eyelander. You're basically the perfect assassin class. Sticky traps for taking out uber medics, and since you can tank so much damage you'll be able to stay at the front and take out snipers as they spawn with your eyelander, getting heads as well as free crits for softening up the giants for your team.

Don't bother upgrading your grenade launcher. The sticky launcher will fill its role entirely. In fact, you could probably trade it out for the booties if you want a little more survivability. Also anything other than damage on the sticky launcher and maybe health on kill are superfluous as the detonation delay puts a hard cap on your dps anyway.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:29 AM   #3
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LnL is excellent with a few upgrades because of the naturally higher damage and projectile speed.

i like using +health on kill so i can stay in the fights, +clip size and +reload speed to deal massive damage even faster, and then after that blast and bullet resistance for survivability.

Edit: Honestly the only times i find myself using the sticky launcher is to lay down traps for when the waves land, or when the hits the fan and i simply need the extra 8 projectiles. It's just too slow of a weapon to rely on on the front lines.

If you want to be the lead fragging class running the show, nothing beats the LnL. It just does so much damage so quickly.

Last edited by Mudweasel: 09-07-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:30 AM   #4
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You primary focus should be to use the scot resistance and focus on relaod time and damage followed by clip size

If you have a krtizkrig medic on your team during setup ask them you krits to to make a krtz sticky mine field; since its start up thell rebuild charge fast again

Another suggetion is during the first wave have an eye lander equiped to quicky get 4 heads for max speed and damage boost.

In the long run GL> lnl just like is regular tf2 even getting direct hits on pipes the gernade launcher still out shines LnL
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:32 AM   #5
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I would say the standard Grenade Launcher is better. Yeah, the groups make it easier to connect with the LNL, but the rollers can catch fairly large groups of robots, and let you attack giants with impeccable aim from outside their field of view.

As for upgrades, the first thing you want to do is boost the reload speed on your weapons. Your sticky launcher (Or Scottish Resistance. I'd say the Resistance, myself) first, and then the Grenade Launcher later.

Stickies are strong enough that once you get all three pips of reload speed, and that one pip of Firing Speed, there's not much to do for that other than generic damage increase, ammo capacity, and health on kill. Unless you're using the Scottish Resistance, and feel the need to increase the clip size to the full 14.

For the Grenade Launchers, after you have a decent reload speed (or even before that), boost the firing rate, and the projectile speed. Boosting the projectile speed will consequently increase the flying range of the projectiles, and make their flight path straighter. Boost that stat enough, and you basically have a bouncy rocket launcher. Increasing damage and/or giving yourself health on kill will make it even stronger. If you don't have easy access to a Dispenser or ammo crates, you might want to boost the ammo capacity of the grenade launcher. Clip Size is also a good idea, unless you feel that reload speed can compensate.

For your weapon, as a Sticky demo, you should stick with a bottle reskin, or perhaps the Eyelander. One or two straggler bots cut down will make you faster and more likely to survive attacks. As for melee weapon upgrades, you can't go wrong with the "crits on kill" bonus, and maybe swing speed if you have the extra dosh. If you get some crits for a kill, you can switch to your explosives and exploit the crits that way. Cutting down a scout bot and laying a quick mini-carpet of crit-stickies is very good.

As for personal upgrades, you honestly won't have a whole lot of extra dosh to blow on that, but if you do have some extra dosh, try upgrading your Blast Resistance. That will make your own explosives hurt you less.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:33 AM   #6
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I always use the grenade launcher + ScoRes. I've tried the damage upgrades and wasn't too happy with them for the price. So I'd advise the upgrades that let you pump out nades/stickies as quickly as possible.

I disagree with the grenade launcher being worthless. It'll buy you time between ammo runs, and it's great against tanks. Usually you'll put a bunch of (hopefully crit) stickies out in the tank's path. While waiting for it to roll over them, shower it with pipes. Pipes are also great if you can land airshots near groups (especially Snipers and Scouts).

LnL is probably good too, but I haven't tried it. If you choose it, you'd better be pretty good at aiming it (obviously), with tanks being sitting ducks of course. But I'd be surprised if the LnL can outdamage the grenade launcher in the long run. Mostly due to the initial "first round" reload delay, which you'll incur more often with the LnL.

Either way, I liked upgrading both of those in the long run, but preferred upgrading the ScoRes at the start of the game.

Edit: for personal upgrades, I always thought run speed was pretty good. But really, Demo doesn't need any personal upgrades. Pump out that damage like a madman, exploit a kritz Medic and crit canteen and stay out of Sniper territory.

Last edited by sandman9601: 09-07-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:37 AM   #7
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My advice comes from the perspective of a trap Demo (as opposed to those who prefer direct combat with LnL, or bombing with the sticky launcher)

I personally like LnL and Scottish Resistance, particularly if your team is clever and can give you free kritz with the medic at the beginning of the round. LnL is needed for situations where you cannot afford to wait for the sticky to arm.

I like to upgrade ScoRes clipsize/firingspeed early, then add damage/reload size once the waves get meatier.

Tactics wise, spread out the stickies (14 krit stickies does the same job as 3 krit stickies most of the time-if your medic Kritz boosts you, spread em out unless it's a tank). Have traps for medics, the bomb, and 2-4 stickies to catch anything that slips by. You can protect an insane amount of area since you can choose what to detonate. Setting multiple traps also makes it significantly easier to pick several sets of medics. A lot of Demomen easily take out the first set, then scramble to get the second/third/fourth set.

Biggest oddity I see is people who use Scottish Resistance but don't take advantage of the multiple traps they can set and just pile them all in one place.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:42 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stat_Bot View Post
Biggest oddity I see is people who use Scottish Resistance but don't take advantage of the multiple traps they can set and just pile them all in one place.
Yeah, that's a good one. Learn the patterns of the bots and how many stickies it'll take to kill them. Like the super octoheavy - lay a trap of about 6 crit stickies in a somewhat wide pattern right where they'll walk. If done correctly you'll take out all the Medics in one blast, and you'll have 8+ for another trap.

With a good ScoRes Demo, a kritz Medic (even a temporary one just to charge you during setup) and some good planning, super octobots aren't all that bad.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:46 AM   #9
Rg Toad
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It was already proven in long term dps a fully upgraded sticky launcher is top by far. Even mini crit soldiers do not compete.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:48 AM   #10
Rg Toad
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Sticks with fire and reload speed can be 300dps averaged out it's more like 250osh(some seconds you get 2-3 in, others you get 1-2).
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