Mann Up Mediocrity in Australia

veto1612 · 08-25-2012, 12:48 AM

To my fellow non-American comrades (i.e. those who haven't been taken into consideration by Valve when they introduced pay-to-play Mann Up Mode),

I have written a formal letter to Valve complaining about this, as well as highlighting how blatant their disregard was for any other country than their own. It is as follows:

---

To whom it may concern,

I recently went onto the SPUF forums, looking for an answer as to why it was impossible for me to connect to a Mann Up server that did not have at least 250 ping from Australia.

The Steam representative, JacobU replied to a thread asking this exact question saying "We have servers located Worldwide." The Oxford definition of "worldwide" is "extending or reaching throughout the world", and so when JacobU then told us that "We [Valve] do not host servers in Australia.", and that the only Mann Up servers were in the West and East Coasts of the USA, and in Luxembourg, his previous statement was shown to be a formulated and blatant lie.

JacobU then said that "As long as your ping is below 100, you should be able to play MvM without issues."

Considering those two statements, your representative just informed the international (including the Australian) community that Mann Up mode would not be properly playable without issues in countries other than the USA and around Luxembourg, as it would be impossible to have a ping of less than 100 from outside those areas.

Yet I bought several Mann Up tickets in order to play this mode. Therefore, Valve has made purchasable something that would not be properly available in most countries.

This is an unacceptable lack of foresight, as there is a huge Team Fortress 2 community in Australia, and your company has effectively given us the finger. I suggest you consider the international community and set up international servers, as I would like to get my money's worth from these tickets.

I would like one of two things:

Either:
A FULL AND COMPLETE REFUND of the $9.90USD I spent to buy the Mann Up tickets;

OR
Action to be taken regarding Valve's blatant neglect of one of its major client demographics, namely servers to be set up in Australia.

I will NOT accept Steam Store credit, as it is a cop-out, and makes it implicit that I accept this mediocrity as standard for Valve.

And if I do not receive a reply to this message, then Valve really has gone downhill, and I will have to keep re-submitting it until somebody does have the courtesy to reply to me, and perhaps the courtesy to consider other countries than their own.

For your reference, the SPUF thread in question is at http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2880169

Regards,

[my name]

---

I suggest that you send letters via steam support with a similar air as mine, so as to let Valve know that we will not accept this poor regard for customers. They need to stop thinking that the USA is the entire world, and to stop selling access to aspects of the game that will not work properly in most of the countries they are on sale in.

Do not take this lying down.

Do not let this mediocrity continue.

Send in your letters, gentlemen.

P.S To those who would tell me that I should just use the F2P MVM modes on private servers, it is a different game mode, with no rewards system, and a totally different difficulty. It is not the same.

lolusernamelol · 08-29-2012, 06:45 PM

I agree wholeheartedly, however, your assumptions would be correct - Valve genuinely do not consider anything outside of what is provided to us from them as valid. This applies to not just this incident, but the company as a whole (IMO).

The best solution I have for you would be to just accept their complacency and be grateful they are even refunding the tickets... I know I was

Sisaroth · 08-31-2012, 04:43 AM

its not pay to play.

you can play the exact same rounds on a free server.
Only difference is that with mann up you get a cosmetical item at the end.

rainbow dash™ · 08-31-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veto1612

P.S To those who would tell me that I should just use the F2P MVM modes on private servers, it is a different game mode, with no rewards system, and a totally different difficulty. It is not the same.

Um... The advanced difficulty aka Mann Up Difficulty is avaible in pub-servers.

ponco · 09-05-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainbow dash™

Um... The advanced difficulty aka Mann Up Difficulty is avaible in pub-servers.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF2 Wiki

The mode is accessible only by owning a Tour of Duty Ticket, a tool that allows entry into official Mann Up servers, which is consumed upon finishing a mission.

It's disgusting, we payed good money for these tickets and yet we can't play it with less than 250ms.

Qwackers · 09-05-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponco

Nope.

It's disgusting, we payed good money for these tickets and yet we can't play it with less than 250ms.

What he meant is that you can play the advanced missions in Boot Camp mode - the only difference is the lack of rewards and, debatingly, a lower average teammate skill in pubs)

Geotpf · 09-05-2012, 07:32 AM

They really should remove sales of Tickets and Vouchers from the Mann Co. Store outside North America and Europe (or at least put a big warning at checkout), or cough up the dough for some servers outside those areas.

DeathNimrod · 09-09-2012, 12:40 AM

I agree, Saxton Hale is from Australia, so why not help us aussies?

SilverAlen · 09-12-2012, 08:31 AM

You live in a country that is constantly flipping off video game companies and you are suprised you have poor service from video game companies? If I were a game company I wouldn't sink money in a country where my games might be banned at the drop of a hat.

FletcherD · 09-12-2012, 11:19 AM

We currently have Mann UP servers in the following locations:

* Washington
* Virginia
* Luxemburg
* Stockholm
* Singapore

We fixed a pretty big bug in the ping estimation code used to select servers, on Friday Sept 7th. Since the bugfix, I've been in contact with multiple players on different continents who were previously getting matched into distant servers, and asking them to try again and report their results. I can confirm that the fix has made a dramatic improvement for those players.

I've PMed and emailed a couple of posters asking for more info to further debug the problem but haven't gotten any replies.

If you are still having problems and have a few minutes to do a few simple diagnostics to help me debug the problem, please PM me.

Shlamalama · 09-24-2012, 08:54 PM

maybe you are underestimating the difficulty of rolling out service in other countries/regions.

i've not heard good things about the state of broadband in australia, even worse than the us.

as for ping, the thing is with bots it matters less. i think with bots coop lag compensation techniques are more effective, i remember watching http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345...rst-Networking i think they say that bots are more deterministic or whatever. anyways if i end up on a high ping server I just play engineer, hell any spam class is ok on a high ping, its harder to play spy though.

08-25-2012, 12:48 AM	#1
veto1612 Join Date: Aug 2012 Reputation: 3 Posts: 2	Mann Up Mediocrity in Australia To my fellow non-American comrades (i.e. those who haven't been taken into consideration by Valve when they introduced pay-to-play Mann Up Mode), I have written a formal letter to Valve complaining about this, as well as highlighting how blatant their disregard was for any other country than their own. It is as follows: --- To whom it may concern, I recently went onto the SPUF forums, looking for an answer as to why it was impossible for me to connect to a Mann Up server that did not have at least 250 ping from Australia. The Steam representative, JacobU replied to a thread asking this exact question saying "We have servers located Worldwide." The Oxford definition of "worldwide" is "extending or reaching throughout the world", and so when JacobU then told us that "We [Valve] do not host servers in Australia.", and that the only Mann Up servers were in the West and East Coasts of the USA, and in Luxembourg, his previous statement was shown to be a formulated and blatant lie. JacobU then said that "As long as your ping is below 100, you should be able to play MvM without issues." Considering those two statements, your representative just informed the international (including the Australian) community that Mann Up mode would not be properly playable without issues in countries other than the USA and around Luxembourg, as it would be impossible to have a ping of less than 100 from outside those areas. Yet I bought several Mann Up tickets in order to play this mode. Therefore, Valve has made purchasable something that would not be properly available in most countries. This is an unacceptable lack of foresight, as there is a huge Team Fortress 2 community in Australia, and your company has effectively given us the finger. I suggest you consider the international community and set up international servers, as I would like to get my money's worth from these tickets. I would like one of two things: Either: A FULL AND COMPLETE REFUND of the $9.90USD I spent to buy the Mann Up tickets; OR Action to be taken regarding Valve's blatant neglect of one of its major client demographics, namely servers to be set up in Australia. I will NOT accept Steam Store credit, as it is a cop-out, and makes it implicit that I accept this mediocrity as standard for Valve. And if I do not receive a reply to this message, then Valve really has gone downhill, and I will have to keep re-submitting it until somebody does have the courtesy to reply to me, and perhaps the courtesy to consider other countries than their own. For your reference, the SPUF thread in question is at http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2880169 Regards, [my name] --- I suggest that you send letters via steam support with a similar air as mine, so as to let Valve know that we will not accept this poor regard for customers. They need to stop thinking that the USA is the entire world, and to stop selling access to aspects of the game that will not work properly in most of the countries they are on sale in. Do not take this lying down. Do not let this mediocrity continue. Send in your letters, gentlemen. P.S To those who would tell me that I should just use the F2P MVM modes on private servers, it is a different game mode, with no rewards system, and a totally different difficulty. It is not the same.

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08-29-2012, 06:45 PM	#2
lolusernamelol Join Date: Oct 2010 Reputation: 2 Posts: 56	I agree wholeheartedly, however, your assumptions would be correct - Valve genuinely do not consider anything outside of what is provided to us from them as valid. This applies to not just this incident, but the company as a whole (IMO). The best solution I have for you would be to just accept their complacency and be grateful they are even refunding the tickets... I know I was

08-31-2012, 04:43 AM	#3
Sisaroth Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 8 Posts: 196	its not pay to play. you can play the exact same rounds on a free server. Only difference is that with mann up you get a cosmetical item at the end.

09-05-2012, 07:32 AM	#7
Geotpf Join Date: Nov 2008 Reputation: 738 Posts: 7,772	They really should remove sales of Tickets and Vouchers from the Mann Co. Store outside North America and Europe (or at least put a big warning at checkout), or cough up the dough for some servers outside those areas.

09-09-2012, 12:40 AM	#8
DeathNimrod Join Date: Oct 2009 Reputation: 6 Posts: 187	I agree, Saxton Hale is from Australia, so why not help us aussies?

09-12-2012, 08:31 AM	#9
SilverAlen Join Date: May 2009 Reputation: 925 Posts: 7,366	You live in a country that is constantly flipping off video game companies and you are suprised you have poor service from video game companies? If I were a game company I wouldn't sink money in a country where my games might be banned at the drop of a hat.

09-12-2012, 11:19 AM	#10
FletcherD Valve Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 785 Posts: 201	We currently have Mann UP servers in the following locations: * Washington * Virginia * Luxemburg * Stockholm * Singapore We fixed a pretty big bug in the ping estimation code used to select servers, on Friday Sept 7th. Since the bugfix, I've been in contact with multiple players on different continents who were previously getting matched into distant servers, and asking them to try again and report their results. I can confirm that the fix has made a dramatic improvement for those players. I've PMed and emailed a couple of posters asking for more info to further debug the problem but haven't gotten any replies. If you are still having problems and have a few minutes to do a few simple diagnostics to help me debug the problem, please PM me.

09-24-2012, 08:54 PM	#11
Shlamalama Join Date: May 2012 Reputation: 134 Posts: 1,612	maybe you are underestimating the difficulty of rolling out service in other countries/regions. i've not heard good things about the state of broadband in australia, even worse than the us. as for ping, the thing is with bots it matters less. i think with bots coop lag compensation techniques are more effective, i remember watching http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345...rst-Networking i think they say that bots are more deterministic or whatever. anyways if i end up on a high ping server I just play engineer, hell any spam class is ok on a high ping, its harder to play spy though.