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Old 01-31-2013, 09:44 AM   #1
apdonato
 
 
 
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Post EPIC BOT COMPARISON SHOWDOWN: RC Bots vs TF Bots

Which bots are the best? Lets find out!



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RC Bots (as of version 0.71, February 23, 2013)

Pros:

- Good performance, no stuttering
- Bots pick random classes
- Engineer bots will move buildings and upgrade teleporters
- Better bot customization (change, remove, add bot profiles/names)
- Work very well on CTF
- Support more game modes than TF Bots
- Bots will use more voice commands like "Medic!" and "Go Go Go!"
- Scout bots will double jump and soldiers will rocket jump
- Bots use melee weapons frequently
- Bots mess around during setup

Cons:

- Prone to crashing the game (partially fixed in version 0.71)
- Use a waypoint system that isn't fluid for bot movements
- Bots move about 20% too slow
- Barebones support for Mann vs Machine
- Bots are too easy, even after making bot profiles of the highest difficulty possible
- Although supporting more modes, support less maps in general
- Much harder to add waypoint support for more maps
- Achievement and Status tracking doesn't work (partial workaround is available)



TF Bots (as of January 31, 2013)

Pros:

- Use a navigation mesh system that makes bot movement very fluid and natural
- Bots navigate terrain better
- Easy to add support for more maps (nav_generate command)
- Work well for modes which are supported (KOTH, PL, A/D, 5CP)
- Much more challenging than RC Bots, even on normal difficulty
- Very good sense of teamwork among bots, pushing points at the last few seconds of the round etc.
- Engineer bots often pick good, unique, random locations for their nests
- Engineer bots will upgrade dispensers and sentries quickly and efficiently

Cons:

- Prone to game engine (framerate) stuttering on particular maps (example: Gravelpit)
- Certain bot classes aren't picked randomly (hard/expert bots will always pick 2 medics per team)
- Bots don't rocket jump/double jump
- Engineer bots don't carry buildings, upgrade teleporters, or help other engineers
- Barebones support for CTF
- No bot support for Payload Race, Special Delivery, and Mann vs Machine
- Very little bot customization (can't pick names, custom difficulty per bot etc.)
- Bots typically only melee when they run out of ammo (with the exception of Spies and Snipers)



Omni-Bots (as of January 31, 2013)

Cons:

- WHY WE HAZ NO OMNI-BOTS YET???



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Verdict:

Frankly both have pros and cons, and it basically boils down to personal preference.

Some cons like bots not using custom loadouts weren't put on the list because neither officially support this yet.

We are yet to see any Omni-Bots...

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This thread will be updated as new pros/cons are thought of and when bots are updated.

Links:

RC Bots: http://rcbot.bots-united.com

TF Bots: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bots

Omni-Bots: http://www.omni-bot.com/wiki/index.p...eam_Fortress_2

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Happy fragging!

Last edited by apdonato: 03-01-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:03 AM   #2
Gedeon
 
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rcbots?

ohmy

last time I saw these was in half-life 1
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:28 PM   #3
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Yeah, maybe three years ago or so when RCBots were the only option they were pretty fantastic... at least I was able to play some TF2 in Iraq, and on ctf_aerospace nonetheless, so that was great.

I'm going to have to re-install the RCBots and give them a go again - I used to have all the waypointing stuff bound to handy keys on my old laptop, and that bit of set-up made working with or modifying waypoints much easier at the time.

Though frankly, I'd expect VALVe to give us an easier method to modify waypoints, etc., for the TFBots. Sure, I can modify things like that currently but it's much the same feel that working with RCBot waypoints had about three years ago.

Some form of UI would be helpful with our current TFBots, though quite often the nav_generate works out pretty darn well, especially for koth maps.

I've actually come to like some of the silly TFBot quirks like DemoMortars and ultra-airshotting Soldiers, but some things like the aimbot Snipers are rather irritating at times... either way, they're still better to play with/against than having no TF2 when I'm on the road for work.

I'd still appreciate some further tweaks to the TFBots, obviously... like assignable unlock weapons/items that function correctly... would be rather fun playing against functioning TFBot Spies with DR's or Soldiers with Direct Hits.

Last edited by thepounder1: 01-31-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:09 PM   #4
apdonato
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thepounder1 View Post
Yeah, maybe three years ago or so when RCBots were the only option they were pretty fantastic... at least I was able to play some TF2 in Iraq, and on ctf_aerospace nonetheless, so that was great.

I'm going to have to re-install the RCBots and give them a go again - I used to have all the waypointing stuff bound to handy keys on my old laptop, and that bit of set-up made working with or modifying waypoints much easier at the time.

Though frankly, I'd expect VALVe to give us an easier method to modify waypoints, etc., for the TFBots. Sure, I can modify things like that currently but it's much the same feel that working with RCBot waypoints had about three years ago.

Some form of UI would be helpful with our current TFBots, though quite often the nav_generate works out pretty darn well, especially for koth maps.

I've actually come to like some of the silly TFBot quirks like DemoMortars and ultra-airshotting Soldiers, but some things like the aimbot Snipers are rather irritating at times... either way, they're still better to play with/against than having no TF2 when I'm on the road for work.

I'd still appreciate some further tweaks to the TFBots, obviously... like assignable unlock weapons/items that function correctly... would be rather fun playing against functioning TFBot Spies with DR's or Soldiers with Direct Hits.
waypoint isn't the appropriate word for TF Bots... TF Bots use an actual navigation "mesh" or a layer on top of the map we all see and play on so that the bots can see the map in their own "language" and play on it themselves... a much better system for bots if you ask me... RC Bots on the other hand use a "rail" system in which they follow and almost never deviate from...

now if valve had bots in mind when they first built the source engine, then they would have encoded the needed information for bots to use in the actual game world geometry so that bots wouldn't even need a navigation mesh, which would mean less CPU usage for bots to function... but sadly they didn't think of it

it sure would be great for Valve to make some kind of AI editor, but if they don't release a clean, user-friendly official map editor (Like the editor for Far Cry 2/3) I doubt they would bother with a Bot Profile/Bot Navigation editor of any sort...

Theres ALOT of money to be made off of a concept like this, NO game really takes any advantage of bot AI in a "multi player" environment and there are plenty of people out there that would love to mess around with AI Bots

i rather have the TF Bot sniper hit me almost every time than the RC Bot sniper ALWAYS MISS... because them RC Bots are WAYYYY TOO EASY...


Its clear that RC Bots were pretty much designed for CTF, because I played every other mode with them, and support is pretty mediocre on CP maps to tell you the truth... Payload and Special Delivery work OKAY I guess but CTF is very good for RC Bots... if only TF Bots and RC Bots can be leisurely added together without having to jump through hoops to get working (pausing the plugin etc.)... and then there are the crashing issues and lack of stat tracking that the RC Bots have so until those issues are fixed, TF Bots are really the only way to go

Last edited by apdonato: 01-31-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:27 PM   #5
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I can agree about appreciating DemoMortars, and I've found that I'm starting to emulate them a bit. It's surprisingly effective against bots, and when I'm able to play with people again I'm tempted to see just how many human players are prepared for a Demoman who knows how to arc their stickies.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:58 AM   #6
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bumpp
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:07 PM   #7
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They are really slow.

But I nearly took a when a bot engineer ran over to my sentry and upgraded it.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
apdonato
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exchef123 View Post
They are really slow.

But I nearly took a when a bot engineer ran over to my sentry and upgraded it.
huh.. thats weird, i can't believe i missed that in the cons section of rc bots... its pretty dam obvious i admit... yea them rc bots be moving too slow... not a huge issue if you ask me, the only issue i have a REAL problem with is the crashing, which is why i still only use TF bots...
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by apdonato View Post
the only issue i have a REAL problem with is the crashing, which is why i still only use TF bots...
Ditto
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