Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-19-2017, 03:35 AM   #1
Sud
 
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Reputation: 2282
Posts: 3,567
So an Overwatch player tries TF2 for the first time...

https://youtu.be/-WrfM_GrgsY

He makes a lot of the typical newb mistakes, has no idea what m2 on pyro is, ubercharge makes him question reality, no idea what a spy is, etc. His DM is nothing to write home about, but you know while the video was trying to showcase what a newb he was, I just couldn't help but notice how much worse the average enemy he encountered was.

Especially that gpit round. It was like watching an aquarium, people moving to and fro in straight lines oblivious to everything around them, where the smartest players on the field were the sentries.

Maybe Valve can resurrect Clippy as TF2s tutorial mascot, have him pop up with lines like "you appear to be receiving fire from an enemy; click here to find out about 'turning around' or here to find out more about healthkits."
Sud is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 04:43 AM   #2
MysticTheMeeM
 
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Reputation: 1374
Posts: 3,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sud View Post
Maybe Valve can resurrect Clippy as TF2s tutorial mascot, have him pop up with lines like "you appear to be receiving fire from an enemy; click here to find out about 'turning around' or here to find out more about healthkits."
Lol@ the thought of potatoes sitting on the point reading a tutorial xD
MysticTheMeeM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 04:51 AM   #3
TMNWG
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Reputation: 478
Posts: 1,190
The game just throws new players into it with barely any help. Some will learn with time and remain, yes, but I can't help but think how many new players are offput by this.
TMNWG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 06:37 AM   #4
dontango
 
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 1713
Posts: 3,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNWG View Post
The game just throws new players into it with barely any help. Some will learn with time and remain, yes, but I can't help but think how many new players are offput by this.
Every single casual game i play the team has at least 2 to 3 players with stats like 3 kills and 24 deaths. And i always ask myself: How can this be fun? How can you enjoy playing a game when you do nothing but walk to the front lines and die, over and over and over again. How can you enjoy spending your time in such a frustrating way, without ever feeling like you accomplished something?
I discussed this with my real life friends who know (and quit) TF2 but we can not wrap our heads around it. It seems like f2p-TF2 2017 is attracting a very special breed of humans. I do not want to get into detail.
dontango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:03 AM   #5
Thurbo
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Reputation: 2038
Posts: 5,717
It's about experience. Personal performance can easily be the least important thing when you get to try something different, after all, you cannot immediately be above average at absolutely everything you do for the first time. Blowing things up can be fun for the first time even if you get blown up 20 times in return.

I'm genuinely more interested in how you ever get to try more things if you're approaching them with this attitude.



@OP, This shouldn't come as a surprise, the average person is not particularly good at video games. That is, when it comes to highly competitive multiplayer ones it's that much more noticeable right off the bat. He's not amazing but his aim does seem at least acceptable, he can definitely hit some shots. Do mind that he has to get used to his own speed, enemy speed and weapon behaviour. It's enough to be somewhat high up on the scoreboard.

Casual on maps that good players ignore will net you with way below average opponents. Most good players stick to competitive or "good" maps, often play on community servers, and competitive players are seldom seen doing anything "casual". So again, not really a surprise.



My first impression of Overwatch wasn't the best. I was annoyed with the seemingly non-existent matchmaking where I was constantly thrown into matches whith either of the teams having a huge gap in level counts. Level 100+ enemies and low levels as teammates or the other way round until I got level 30 or something when they finally released competitive.

Despite that, I very consistently was the guy with gold everything on my team, whether we got stomped or stomped the other team. I didn't follow the hype, I watched close beta streams for a few days but then only waited for the invitation which never came. So I only really started to learn the game with the open beta. Yet, with my TF2 experience I was able to pick DPS Heroes and shoot stuff much better than the average player.

TF2 always has streams of new players who occupy casual. Overwatch was in a similar situation when it was new, but I'm betting the casual situation isn't much different yet.

During Season 3 a guy from Mexico I've known for years purchased the game and we queued up for casual (I had to switch regions since I'm from Europe). That was the first time I played anything but competitive and the events.

I wouldn't expect much from a matchmaking service if it had to find matches for veterans and new players queueing together, but somehow it did surprise me how incapable everyone in that match was. Torbjörns placing turrets in corners and in directly in front of the enemy spawn, everyone just let me take the first point, and then my team seemed to be unaware how important it is to stay together on the Payload while the other team kept swarming it so that thing didn't go very far.



What I mean to say is, TF2 certainly could make attempts at matching players very carefully by their medals. But even Overwatch doesn't match player levels in casual. If the queue times would be too horrendous in Overwatch then doing so for TF2 that would definitely make the matchmaker nigh-unusable.


A more involved tutorial could certainly help, but it will only make people more aware of potential things they can do. It will not magically create matches where people don't play as poorly as in that video. OW also doesn't teach you anything other than to WASD and to use your ability buttons to kill. The best way to learn is to play.

Last edited by Thurbo: 03-19-2017 at 08:05 AM.
Thurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 09:21 AM   #6
Terobero
 
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Reputation: 12
Posts: 144
The game should force people to play the tutorial like CS:GO
Terobero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 10:21 AM   #7
The Medic
 
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Reputation: 6931
Posts: 18,967
I wish everyone would stop assuming that everyone is good at video games. They're not. Most people are not good at video games. For every player that has a hundred kills and three deaths in a game, there HAS to be players that have the opposite.

Yes, there's a lot of bad players in TF2, but the tutorial is and non-existent, it's a free-to-play game meaning there's no dedication and the game's default settings are ing awful for new players, with things like quick weapon switch being the default being NEW things for the game.

And on top of that, TF2 is a hard game to play well, even more so if you're coming in from consoles. It's a fast-paced quake-like shooter with high skill ceilings even for classes like Medic and Soldier, with a billion little tiny things that the game half the time doesn't tell you.
The Medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:28 AM   #8
Toadgineer
 
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Reputation: 277
Posts: 1,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sud View Post
Maybe Valve can resurrect Clippy as TF2s tutorial mascot, have him pop up with lines like "you appear to be receiving fire from an enemy; click here to find out about 'turning around' or here to find out more about healthkits."
Now what if they included tool tips regarding the circumstances of your death while you were waiting to respawn? Granted, a potato can't read, but here's to hoping that enough 15-20 second bursts of waiting to respawn might make them notice it.
Toadgineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:37 AM   #9
Thurbo
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Reputation: 2038
Posts: 5,717
The game not telling you things and the tutorial being mediocre are things that could be improved, but I stand by my belief that this won't make the average player better at the game by any measurable magnitude. There's so much more to learn than can ever be put in words. Video games, especially if designed to be competitive are complex enough that they can't just be solved theoretically.
Thurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 12:17 PM   #10
Teamfortressguy
 
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Reputation: 1517
Posts: 4,492
It doesn't help that the game's default settings are crap - low fov, and all the useful stuff in advanced options are turned off like fast weapon switch, damage numbers and indicators, etc. If they turned a lot of those on by default that would help immensely.

Last edited by Teamfortressguy: 03-19-2017 at 12:23 PM.
Teamfortressguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 12:54 PM   #11
BooleanBacon
 
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Reputation: 540
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamfortressguy View Post
It doesn't help that the game's default settings are crap - low fov, and all the useful stuff in advanced options are turned off like fast weapon switch, damage numbers and indicators, etc. If they turned a lot of those on by default that would help immensely.
This. Game is virtually unplayable at any serious level without hitsounds and damage numbers. FOV is a big help too, but I didn't find it as crucial. Why are those off by default? It's the dumbest thing I've never understood about TF2. Turned them on in the first week and it instantly made me twice as good at deciding what fights to commit to
BooleanBacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 01:13 PM   #12
Loose Cannon
 
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Reputation: 1090
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamfortressguy View Post
It doesn't help that the game's default settings are crap - low fov, and all the useful stuff in advanced options are turned off like fast weapon switch, damage numbers and indicators, etc. If they turned a lot of those on by default that would help immensely.
I think they actually made fast weapon switch the default, but you are right about the other things.

Unrelated note, I wish Valve would alter TF2's artstyle to look more like it's cell-shaded, or based on 1920s art. It would compensate for the relatively low quality of the textures and help the game stand the test of time, at least visually. I think most of it is a matter of shading, although I would be lying if I said I understand the process behind it. However, the original 2006 gameplay trailer illustrates this style pretty clearly, and the game actually looks pretty damn good at that point (ignoring the horrible character faces).

I do remember the mat_phong command, though that one gave me a lot of performance issues (and I'm not certain if it can even be used on Valve servers anymore).

EDIT: I kind of went off on a tangent, but it's actually really fun to see a person playing TF2 for the very first time. All the stuff he's confused at, him thinking he's doing good when he's not, etc. That takes me back.

Last edited by Loose Cannon: 03-19-2017 at 01:32 PM.
Loose Cannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 02:04 PM   #13
MysticTheMeeM
 
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Reputation: 1374
Posts: 3,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
Unrelated note, I wish Valve would alter TF2's artstyle to look more like it's cell-shaded, or based on 1920s art. It would compensate for the relatively low quality of the textures and help the game stand the test of time, at least visually. I think most of it is a matter of shading, although I would be lying if I said I understand the process behind it. However, the original 2006 gameplay trailer illustrates this style pretty clearly, and the game actually looks pretty damn good at that point (ignoring the horrible character faces)..
Cel shading makes stuff look very flat, compared to more dynamic shading methods.
Personally, I'd prefer it but it'd also make it harder to see cosmetics and what have you.
MysticTheMeeM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 02:48 PM   #14
Mech_Chicken
 
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Reputation: 834
Posts: 5,120
Many F2Ps are kids attracted by the cartoonish aesthetic with little money to purchase games that cost money. Many might come only from fresh from Minecraft and consoles and have no idea what a shooter is until they join a game and assume the sniper's SMG is the best weapon.

It's understandable, and at the same time I can't help but start a votekick to kick the worst player playing 3rd or 4th sniper/spy and with whom it's obvious they only having a passing knowledge of what button to press to start their computer. Doesn't matter how old they are or what complications occurred at their birth.

Last edited by Mech_Chicken: 03-19-2017 at 02:50 PM.
Mech_Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 03:14 PM   #15
Scoopy
 
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Reputation: 138
Posts: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terobero View Post
The game should force people to play the tutorial like CS:GO
It should go all-out like Paladins and prevent you from even matchmaking until you play 5 bot matches.
Scoopy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site Content Copyright Valve Corporation 1998-2015, All Rights Reserved.