Game Balance, Bugs & Suggestions (patch 1.00)

Mune84 · 08-18-2012, 11:01 PM

Greetings forumers and developers alike,

The games release has come and passed, and now the world is getting a taste of what Tower Wars is. Many a Moopsie has fallen in combat for King and Country as the community grows and learns the lay of the land. F

or those of you needing a kickstart in the learning department, check out this thread.

Now, on to business:

The biggest bug I can see that I want to bring attention to is that which Voyler pointed out here. I can confirm that this bug effects anyone who is experiencing excessive lag in the game. While it may be due to running below minimum specs, the penalty for bad hardware should be low framerate only, and not game-altering strangeness (for lack of a better word).

My non-balance suggestion would be in regards to the 'Match Setup' functionality. It's been mentioned before, but I will reiterate because I too find it annoying, but when choose '1v1', I only want 1v1 games. Same goes for those wanting 2v2 and so on, of course. As time goes by, have it expand the acceptable limits in point disparity, but please don't have it cancel out our implicit selections.

In regards to balance, I'll start with my main concern, as I think a small change could improve the game dramatically. It's not really even a balance change, like fixing something that's broken, but rather a real fundamental part of what makes a game fun. I and others have said so before, but I think awarding more 'bounty gold' (the gold earned by killing units) would strike a better balance between the aggressor and defender.

What I mean is, this game and games like it favor the aggressor, as it should, because you can't destroy the enemy castle with defenses alone. So the aggressor is the one with the advantage, and the defender wants to nullify that advantage. The first person to become the aggressor should therefore win more often, but in the current state of the game, they almost always win. The defender is not given enough chance to reverse the situation, and the aggressor can press his early advantage into a win almost always.

So why would more bounty gold help fix this? Well, bounty gold is the only advantage a defender has. As the aggressor sends more units, they lose gold and earn battle points, while the defender earns only gold and has to spend it all on additional tower defenses. What the defender needs is to make enough gold from an effective defense in order to afford to send a counter-attack. Without that option, the defender is stuck spending on towers to defend as each wave coming at them is more durable than the last.

The trick is of course finding the right balance. I couldn't possibly suggest a 'right' number as to how much bounty gold should be earned, I can only state that it should be more. Only testing and time could tell us what number is best.

Minor balance suggestions:

Selling towers should award you back 50% of what it cost, rather than the current 25%. Currently, selling towers is a bit too punishing.
Mr. Moopsie unit upgrades should be slightly cheaper. Something like 30 BP for first upgrade instead of 50, and so on.
Make Tesla towers do slightly less damage to HP... maybe. Not sure if it's quite necessary, given their cost, but as they are now, they do similar HP damage to an arrow tower. That with their chaining ability (hitting units at a longer range than the arrow tower), might be a bit too much.

Thats it! Feel free to share your own bugs, suggestions or discuss game balance.

HisNoodlyName · 08-18-2012, 11:09 PM

Peptos should not heal other Peptos.

Castle gun turrets should all focus the same target; or alternatively, Pepto healing per second should be capped to a certain % of unit max HP.

Shielder/Motivator are a bit weak. Increasing their shields and armor, respectively, would make them more competitive with other sends, and reducing somewhat the HP of Peptos would bring them in line with the other (postbuff) T3s

TSquare · 08-18-2012, 11:35 PM

My brother and I thought it would be fun to join a 2v2 match after a couple games together.

16min later, having made a cup of coffee AND a coffee table, we get a 3 v 3 pop.

Whereupon some ♥♥♥♥ proceeds to spam chat incessantly. 2min later, there's a zoombot rush that we can't defend against and the game is over with the spammer laughing and swearing at us.

/uninstall

(Edit: "Life is too short.")

Sipty · 08-19-2012, 12:42 AM

There has been many people complaining about the Peptos spam and really - I don't see it. People just need to understand that maximizing your dps per hex is the key to being competitive.

Play around with it, read up on the subject and go back to the game. It's much deeper than advertised.

geggis · 08-19-2012, 01:16 AM

I've not seen anybody succeed using lightning towers en masse, neither have I been unable to stop these apparently overpowered Peptos. Even Stanley rushes have been entirely stoppable with the right defences. Zoombots are easily stopped with a bunch of upgraded fans and cannons too. If I was to change the Pepto unit, I'd lower their BP gain just to prevent them being viable standalone spam units-- they're support so really they should only be used to accompany units that can attack the castle.

I'm not a particularly great player, I can hang in there but I'm not good at the end-game yet (ie. pushing enough units all the way through), but I'm yet to come across a player who has managed to stick with any of these cheap tactics for long because I shut them down as soon as possible. ARG! surprise attacks work a treat too. If they're getting through it's more often than not a problem with my defences not the game. After a loss I can usually see where I went wrong, so I learn from it and take that lesson into the next game. It's a tough game against a good player, that's for sure, but aren't they all?

Mune84 · 08-20-2012, 11:55 AM

HisNoodlyName:
I like your suggestion for Peptos (not healing eachother), it's one I've heard before and I think it sounds like it might be all that's needed. It would cause people to use them as intended, that is, to heal other units.

TSquare
Sorry to hear about your experience, playing games online with other people is always a bit of a tricky situation seeing as how it relies on things external to ourselves. That's my fancy way of saying 'sorry, some people are just ♥♥♥♥♥ and make a game less fun'. Hard to avoid in any multiplayer game really. I guess I've been lucky, I haven't had to endure any rudeness yet.

Sipty
Amen to that my friend, because knowledge is power! What I might agree with other people regarding peptos though is that they're not filling the intended role. Some people just send them for the BP gathering only, rather than with any intentions of healing units.

geggis
Agreed on the peptos and tesla towers. Actually, Voyle has made a very nice summary of the problem with tesla towers (here) and it's not at all what I expected. Anyway, nice to see some people with the right attitude towards this new competitive game.

08-18-2012, 11:01 PM	#1
Mune84 Join Date: Jul 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 32	Game Balance, Bugs & Suggestions (patch 1.00) Greetings forumers and developers alike, The games release has come and passed, and now the world is getting a taste of what Tower Wars is. Many a Moopsie has fallen in combat for King and Country as the community grows and learns the lay of the land. F or those of you needing a kickstart in the learning department, check out this thread. Now, on to business: The biggest bug I can see that I want to bring attention to is that which Voyler pointed out here. I can confirm that this bug effects anyone who is experiencing excessive lag in the game. While it may be due to running below minimum specs, the penalty for bad hardware should be low framerate only, and not game-altering strangeness (for lack of a better word). My non-balance suggestion would be in regards to the 'Match Setup' functionality. It's been mentioned before, but I will reiterate because I too find it annoying, but when choose '1v1', I only want 1v1 games. Same goes for those wanting 2v2 and so on, of course. As time goes by, have it expand the acceptable limits in point disparity, but please don't have it cancel out our implicit selections. In regards to balance, I'll start with my main concern, as I think a small change could improve the game dramatically. It's not really even a balance change, like fixing something that's broken, but rather a real fundamental part of what makes a game fun. I and others have said so before, but I think awarding more 'bounty gold' (the gold earned by killing units) would strike a better balance between the aggressor and defender. What I mean is, this game and games like it favor the aggressor, as it should, because you can't destroy the enemy castle with defenses alone. So the aggressor is the one with the advantage, and the defender wants to nullify that advantage. The first person to become the aggressor should therefore win more often, but in the current state of the game, they almost always win. The defender is not given enough chance to reverse the situation, and the aggressor can press his early advantage into a win almost always. So why would more bounty gold help fix this? Well, bounty gold is the only advantage a defender has. As the aggressor sends more units, they lose gold and earn battle points, while the defender earns only gold and has to spend it all on additional tower defenses. What the defender needs is to make enough gold from an effective defense in order to afford to send a counter-attack. Without that option, the defender is stuck spending on towers to defend as each wave coming at them is more durable than the last. The trick is of course finding the right balance. I couldn't possibly suggest a 'right' number as to how much bounty gold should be earned, I can only state that it should be more. Only testing and time could tell us what number is best. Minor balance suggestions: Selling towers should award you back 50% of what it cost, rather than the current 25%. Currently, selling towers is a bit too punishing. Mr. Moopsie unit upgrades should be slightly cheaper. Something like 30 BP for first upgrade instead of 50, and so on. Make Tesla towers do slightly less damage to HP... maybe. Not sure if it's quite necessary, given their cost, but as they are now, they do similar HP damage to an arrow tower. That with their chaining ability (hitting units at a longer range than the arrow tower), might be a bit too much. Thats it! Feel free to share your own bugs, suggestions or discuss game balance.

08-18-2012, 11:35 PM	#3
TSquare Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 18 Posts: 31	My brother and I thought it would be fun to join a 2v2 match after a couple games together. 16min later, having made a cup of coffee AND a coffee table, we get a 3 v 3 pop. Whereupon some ♥♥♥♥ proceeds to spam chat incessantly. 2min later, there's a zoombot rush that we can't defend against and the game is over with the spammer laughing and swearing at us. /uninstall (Edit: "Life is too short.") Last edited by TSquare: 08-18-2012 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Summary

08-19-2012, 01:16 AM	#5
geggis Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 6 Posts: 40	I've not seen anybody succeed using lightning towers en masse, neither have I been unable to stop these apparently overpowered Peptos. Even Stanley rushes have been entirely stoppable with the right defences. Zoombots are easily stopped with a bunch of upgraded fans and cannons too. If I was to change the Pepto unit, I'd lower their BP gain just to prevent them being viable standalone spam units-- they're support so really they should only be used to accompany units that can attack the castle. I'm not a particularly great player, I can hang in there but I'm not good at the end-game yet (ie. pushing enough units all the way through), but I'm yet to come across a player who has managed to stick with any of these cheap tactics for long because I shut them down as soon as possible. ARG! surprise attacks work a treat too. If they're getting through it's more often than not a problem with my defences not the game. After a loss I can usually see where I went wrong, so I learn from it and take that lesson into the next game. It's a tough game against a good player, that's for sure, but aren't they all? Last edited by geggis: 08-19-2012 at 01:19 AM.

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08-18-2012, 11:09 PM	#2
HisNoodlyName Join Date: Jul 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 30	Peptos should not heal other Peptos. Castle gun turrets should all focus the same target; or alternatively, Pepto healing per second should be capped to a certain % of unit max HP. Shielder/Motivator are a bit weak. Increasing their shields and armor, respectively, would make them more competitive with other sends, and reducing somewhat the HP of Peptos would bring them in line with the other (postbuff) T3s

08-19-2012, 12:42 AM	#4
Sipty Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 1	There has been many people complaining about the Peptos spam and really - I don't see it. People just need to understand that maximizing your dps per hex is the key to being competitive. Play around with it, read up on the subject and go back to the game. It's much deeper than advertised.

08-20-2012, 11:55 AM	#6
Mune84 Join Date: Jul 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 32	HisNoodlyName: I like your suggestion for Peptos (not healing eachother), it's one I've heard before and I think it sounds like it might be all that's needed. It would cause people to use them as intended, that is, to heal other units. TSquare Sorry to hear about your experience, playing games online with other people is always a bit of a tricky situation seeing as how it relies on things external to ourselves. That's my fancy way of saying 'sorry, some people are just ♥♥♥♥♥ and make a game less fun'. Hard to avoid in any multiplayer game really. I guess I've been lucky, I haven't had to endure any rudeness yet. Sipty Amen to that my friend, because knowledge is power! What I might agree with other people regarding peptos though is that they're not filling the intended role. Some people just send them for the BP gathering only, rather than with any intentions of healing units. geggis Agreed on the peptos and tesla towers. Actually, Voyle has made a very nice summary of the problem with tesla towers (here) and it's not at all what I expected. Anyway, nice to see some people with the right attitude towards this new competitive game.