So, now what? What do L4D players get?

[MIST]

Originally Posted by Alith

I didn't realise we were paying monthly for it?

Oh wait.. We're not.

Mate, if you haven't managed to squeeze twenty quids worth of fun out of L4D in the last year then you should give up gaming.

Also, you seem to have wildly unrealistic expectations of what that small amount of cash entitles you to these days. It's an 18 rated game so I'm going to assume you are earning money and paying your way in life.

First:i'm one of the guys who trusted Valve and bought the game at launch,so it's not 20 quids.Second,i already wrote it but looks like you can't read properly:i can easily get any other multiplayer game for the same price and get 2-3 years of fun.Why should i trust a company that instead killed its game after 1 year.Simply if they kill their games after 1 year i can spend my money better on mp games that doesn't get killed after 1 year but are left growing for more time.
These are not wild expectations.CSS got no DLCs but you could play it for years,and same goes for CS or Killing Floor.So L4D lifespan is a lot less than the standard lifespan of a MP game.Why should i spend my money in a 1 year lifespan game when i can get 3 years of fun buying another multiplayer game.

Simply,if i have to buy a multiplayer game,i have no reason to buy it from a company that killed its last multiplayer game after only 1 year.
On the other side,looks like you are happy to spend your money in low quality products rather than in better quality products,so i assume you don't earn your money working.


You guys can't read or can't understand,it does not matter,but it would be easier to explain it to a 2 years old baby.

[alehm]

MIST, if L4D is such a "low quality game" with better games out there you sure seem upset about it being "killed" by Valve. It is also easy to explain to a 2 year old baby L4D isn't getting "killed". It will still get DLC AFTER L4D2's release. I am sure there are other, warped and strange individuals like yourself that like to sit around playing low quality games like L4D and keep playing it long after L4D2's release. You must be an artist or something. Forcing yourself to care and play something you don't like to find inspiration in your sorrow.

[MIST]

Originally Posted by alehm

MIST, if L4D is such a "low quality game" with better games out there you sure seem upset about it being "killed" by Valve. It is also easy to explain to a 2 year old baby L4D isn't getting "killed". It will still get DLC AFTER L4D2's release. I am sure there are other, warped and strange individuals like yourself that like to sit around playing low quality games like L4D and keep playing it long after L4D2's release. You must be an artist or something. Forcing yourself to care and play something you don't like to find inspiration in your sorrow.

It's easy to explain to a 2 years old,so i assume you're 1 years old.I was talking about lifespan.Can you read in the post how everytime i refer about "lifespan"?How i only mentioned lifespan and not any other aspect of the game?L4D lifespan is a lot lower than any other MP game,cause 1 year is a low lifespan for a multiplayer game,even compared to CSS who got no DLCs but was simply left alone with a SDK and people got the chance to play it for 5 years and have 5 years of fun out of their money.Any other MP game gives you the chance to get years of fun out of them,not just 1 year.

So,a multiplayer game that lasts only 1 year cause it's company steals the community with a early sequel means a low quality service.

I hope you got it this time,my 1 years old mate.

Second:what is the use in releasing DLCs for a dead game?Let's say they release DLCs after L4D is dead.What should i do,play them in single player?Use 4x4 matchmaking when there's almost no one to play with?
It's the same as trying to heal or feed a dead person.

Now,the only chance is for Valve to magically link the 2 games and keep the players still together.Else,people already said they won't come back to L4D=L4D will die after 1 year=lower lifespan than any other MP game=low service/low quality product since valve said that they don't deliver games but a "service".If product=service and their service is of low quality,then their product is low quality.

Don't reply if you at least don't try to understand what i write,my baby.I hope i put it simple enough this time.

[synthemesc]

Originally Posted by MIST

It's easy to explain to a 2 years old,so i assume you're 1 years old.

har har har, siiiiiick burn!

/sarcasm

they haven't killed it, you said you know that there will be more dlc for l4d1. I HIGHLY doubt l4d1 will be dead for at least another year. Lots of people are holding off until l4d2 goes on sale, or just aren't going to buy it.

Valve even stated that they're not done with it yet. They also said we'd understand where they were going eventually too. I tend to trust them because they have NEVER let me down. Especially not with l4d1, this was the best $40 i've ever spent! I couldn't count how much fun and time i've put into this game.

[MIST]

Originally Posted by synthemesc

har har har, siiiiiick burn!

/sarcasm

they haven't killed it, you said you know that there will be more dlc for l4d1. I HIGHLY doubt l4d1 will be dead for at least another year. Lots of people are holding off until l4d2 goes on sale, or just aren't going to buy it.

Valve even stated that they're not done with it yet. They also said we'd understand where they were going eventually too. I tend to trust them because they have NEVER let me down. Especially not with l4d1, this was the best $40 i've ever spent! I couldn't count how much fun and time i've put into this game.

I understand.I hope too that they will surprise me and keep L4D alive along with L4D2.But,i just will believe it when i see it,just cause they already let down on some of their promises (more weapons,SI exc...the famous interview where they said they'd support L4D the way they did with TF2 and then they shipped a early sequel).

About DLCs and L4D dying or not...

1)As i said,if L4D dies future DLCs are unuseful...

2)So far just the demo of L4D2 caused a massive decrease in the number of servers and players.It's even harder to find a good server,and most of the time it's a half empty match.Also,L4D2 sold a lot,they said 3 times more than L4D,this means that a great portion of the community,if not almost the 90% of L4D players,got L4D2.In the end,in every related thread you can read people answering that they have no intention to come back to L4D cause L4D2 is the same gameplay but with more stuff/problems solved exc...

Put all this together and the only thing we can assume right now is that,unless Valve do something about it,L4D community will almost completely migrate to L4D2.With no servers and no players a MP game is dead...

I really hope Valve will surprise me,but as i said after L4D experience i'll belive only when i see it.

[honorlost_]

Who knows? I think they will eventually release some kind of cross play feature between the 2. I agree with the others though I have played the crap outta l4d1 so I am not in the least bit sorry i purchased it. I def got my 50 bucks worth.

[alehm]

Originally Posted by MIST

It's easy to explain to a 2 years old,so i assume you're 1 years old.

You totally nailed me there mate. I am a 1 year old baby. What's your excuse?

[MIST]

Originally Posted by alehm

You totally nailed me there mate. I am a 1 year old baby. What's your excuse?

My excuses for wasting my time explaining how to read posts to a 1 years old baby?Mmh....let me think...i guess i'm too patient sometimes.Should really have ignored you from the start,and i should do the same with all the other trolls who flame people who express their opinions.

Cause you know,if someone says he doesn't like Valve policy or how they handled L4D support,you should reply with proper arguments instead of using personal attacks.I got to reply to Alith personal attacks,then to yours.
Now,guys,learn how to argue with someone or go to the L4D2 section if you can't stand criticism to Valve.
In any case,i'm pretty sure you've better things to do than troll people on forums.

[90% Jihad]

Originally Posted by MIST

[...]a massive decrease in the number of servers and players.It's even harder to find a good server,and most of the time [...]

Only in the case that all L4D2 content were released for free as an add-on to L4D1 would that not happen.
Let's pretend this were a $20 DLC add-on to L4D1. At least the same amount of people would buy it, probably more, and the L4D1 servers would be clogged with players on the new campaigns. Those who don't want to spend $20 would have much less lobbies/servers to share.
Really unless it were free, those who don't purchase "the new" will get the shaft in that way. That is inevitable.
It's in my mind not at all reasonable for all of the content to be free, forming my argument that the fact it's a new game makes no difference and the only valid argument is the price of it. At $34 for the 4-pack purchases, in *my* mind that argument vanishes.

Originally Posted by MIST

[...]L4D community will almost completely migrate to L4D2.With no servers and no players a MP game is dead[...]

Agreed. However for myself (bought l4d2) I know for a fact two things:
(1) I will want to play "the old gang" now and then
(2) The new campaigns will get "old" just like they did on L4D1 and I'll want a switch to a good BH or DA battle

Certainly the base will shrink by a lot, but I say again, the only way to avoid that is to give the l4d2 content away for free.

You might make the argument that that's what 'they promised' with new weapons and new SI. I disagree. That was one person making a huge PR mistake, and that it was, it was a bad move to set those expectations.
When you look at the amount of new stuff, it's inevitable that a boat load of work went into it in a short time. For a free DLC, that would never be done, it would be far smaller in scope and probably take longer.
Personally, I don't want just one or two more campaigns and a couple o'guns and a new SI, I really like this whole package approach with tons of new stuff including new survivors. So I'm glad they went the route they did.

The one thing I really knock them for is that PR blunder. They should have realized it and mopped it up with a sincere apology.

[MIST]

Only in the case that all L4D2 content were released for free as an add-on to L4D1 would that not happen.
Let's pretend this were a $20 DLC add-on to L4D1. At least the same amount of people would buy it, probably more, and the L4D1 servers would be clogged with players on the new campaigns. Those who don't want to spend $20 would have much less lobbies/servers to share.
Really unless it were free, those who don't purchase "the new" will get the shaft in that way. That is inevitable.
It's in my mind not at all reasonable for all of the content to be free, forming my argument that the fact it's a new game makes no difference and the only valid argument is the price of it. At $34 for the 4-pack purchases, in *my* mind that argument vanishes.

Good argument,but i think there's a major flaw in what you say.Let's say a part of the ppl who own L4D don't buy the expansion.Still,the expansion official campaigns would be a small part compared to the original+community campaigns.People would still be able to play together in custom campaigns and official campaigns.So may be at the release there would be a split up in the player community,but they will eventually be together with most of the campaigns.As for new weapons and new SI,it's simple:they are still in the maps,but only the expansion owners can pick them up.Expansion owners can use new SI in versus while L4D owners can only have them as NPC in coop.This way you eventually keep all the players together.I may have not all the extra content if i don't buy it,but servers and players are still all together.
With a sequel,instead,players will still be divided even if they play the same custom maps,or the original maps.

And L4D2 with preorder costs more than $20.People keep calculating it with the 4 pack offer but not everybody can/want to buy 4 copies of the game or have 3 friends to buy the game with(i mean,you have friends but they don't play L4D).

So it's really different if you keep ppl on the same game but with extra content for a part of the players,or if you make a sequel.Cause the campaigns and maps would be mostly custom+DLC+original,while the expansion ones would be a smaller part.With a sequel,people can't even play together the custom campaigns and the original campaigns.

Playing L4D "now and then" won't change the fact that L4D will lose almost all the players and servers.Some L4D2 players playing L4D 2 times in a month won't change anything imho...

To me,the only solution to keep L4D alive is to cross-link the games so that players from L4D and L4D2 can play together shared campaigns such as community campaigns or DLC campaigns.Or also making L4D campaigns available for L4D2 and L4D2 campaigns available for L4D,so that players can play together all the campaigns.It would be a good exchange (L4D2 players get L4D campaigns for free and L4D players get L4D2 campaigns).

But they could already do that with a expansion,imho.

However,if i remember well,Newell mentioned some kind of "crossovers" between L4D and L4D2 in his last interview...The problem is,with a sequel these "crossovers" are unuseful for L4D players.Even if we get,let's say,a couple of SI and weapons,or new fire effect and dynamic crescendo,it won't be of any use if the game is already dead cause everybody is playing L4D2.As i said,it's like trying to heal or feed someone who's already dead.

[Phaseshifter]

You got lots of generous DLC

Wha?

Like it or not, there's nothing forcing them to give us more than the game as it was sold.

It's weird. Gamers will take a new version of street fighter with nothing more than 3-4 new chars and maybe a new stage or 2 (which doesn't affect gameplay in any way) without a word.

But L4D2 doesn't count as a new game because bla bla bla.

[MIST]

sf4 is a single player brawler with a small mp part to allow you to challenge human players.With ssf4 out you'll still be able to play 90% of the content of the game.I own SF4,not going to buy the update but i'll still be able to enjoy my game anytime i want.

L4D is a multiplayer coop team-based FPS with a small,experimental and almost unuseful single player mode.With L4D2 out and community(players,servers and modders) migrated to the new game you'll lose 90% of the game.

I hope you see the difference.

Plus,with a brawler such as SF4 you expect it to get a updated version in a short time,cause in the past it's always been like that.
With a multiplayer game such as L4D it's the first time a yearly sequel is shipped,so it's greatly unexpected,more of all when you think about all the promises of supportand community growth they made at launch.


Really,you can try any sort of weird comparisons,but they won't work.Compare L4D lifespan with CS,CSS,TF,TF2,KF,Natural Selection and so on.L4D is the only one killed after 1 year by a early sequel.That's the only comparison you can make.With other games of the same genre.

[Phaseshifter]

Originally Posted by MIST

sf4 is a single player brawler with a small mp part to allow you to challenge human players.With ssf4 out you'll still be able to play 90% of the content of the game.I own SF4,not going to buy the update but i'll still be able to enjoy my game anytime i want.

L4D is a multiplayer coop team-based FPS with a small,experimental and almost unuseful single player mode.With L4D2 out and community(players,servers and modders) migrated to the new game you'll lose 90% of the game.

I hope you see the difference.

Plus,with a brawler such as SF4 you expect it to get a updated version in a short time,cause in the past it's always been like that.
With a multiplayer game such as L4D it's the first time a yearly sequel is shipped,so it's greatly unexpected,more of all when you think about all the promises of supportand community growth they made at launch.


Really,you can try any sort of weird comparisons,but they won't work.Compare L4D lifespan with CS,CSS,TF,TF2,KF,Natural Selection and so on.L4D is the only one killed after 1 year by a early sequel.That's the only comparison you can make.With other games of the same genre.

sf4 is a single player brawler with a small mp part to allow you to challenge human players

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah,ok, fighting games are made for single player play. Right. No offense but, in light of this statment. There's little point in us discussing.

But you missed the whole point of my comaprison.I Really can't see what's stoping you from still playing L4D a year from now.

[Kaizoku]

Originally Posted by Phaseshifter

But you missed the whole point of my comaprison.I Really can't see what's stoping you from still playing L4D a year from now.

Community. There won't be much of a community at all without the competitive community sticking around to keep things going after the casual crowd leaves.

The reason the SF series has a massive following is because of its competitions, and because it sticks to its roots (with a few exceptions). Without a competitive community the SF series would not be nearly as popular, it's the same with all multiplayer titles that have legendary replay value. No community in a multiplayer game = no replay value, and while the community for L4D isn't dead, it will be dying far ahead of its time because of Valve's decisions.

[Mr.Infidelz^]

I can't even begin to be bothered replying individually to most of these posts, however I'll make a special exception for MIST.

Firstly it's pretty funny watching you insult people calling them "1 years old baby...." and such. (By the the way, one year is singular therefore you don't add the S.) Then you turn around and say: "People are resorting to personal attacks and trolling!" Laughable, my friend.

L4D for me has had its time. I paid around £20-35 for it. The average price of a game nowadays. Even if it has, or has not been a year. I can already feel the game becoming ever so repetitive and stale with each play through and versus match. Sometimes I even drop out half way through a VS match because I'd rather go do something else. Sure you may not feel the same way, but I think if this is a regular occurrence with other players, it may have something to do with why L4D2 was received as such a welcome change, rather than a simple DLC.

The whole sense of entitlement thing really bugs me. If you're not prepared to pay more money for the sequel, then good for you. Don't pay for it, but the insults go both ways my friend. There's no use insulting people that are willing to pay for the sequels, because they feel they've received their money's worth. Paying for the sequel does not make them a Fanbo1 or a "Hammer Legion Member". It's the same as eating at a restaurant. You receive an excellent meal, you would be happy to pay for it full price and possibly even leave a tip. That doesn't mean you've even been to that restaurant before in your life. Likewise, if you feel the meal was terrible, you'll take it up with them. If you can't get your way, you'll probably refuse to ever eat there again. The restaurant owner/s probably would refuse to care. You're only one customer out of hundreds and thousands in Valve's case. What they do care about is the majority, if the restaurant was flooded day in and day out of complaints and received little to no sales, then something would have to be done.

Unfortunately for you guys that feel you have been cheated and lied to, the numbers and facts are against you. Gabe Claims the L4D2 Pre-orders triple the original's, so obviously the majority seem to welcome L4D2 with open arms rather than pushing it away in disgust. There's also the third group that many people seem to completely overlook. The people that do not mind playing either L4D or L4D2 once the fresh hype dies down.

Fact is companies release sequels all the time, sure it may not be exactly in the same time spans and such, however it happens all the time. Although I've already bought L4D2, I still believe L4D2 will NOT kill off L4D1. Simple as. Look at it this way: Back when CS 1.6 was the only CS available, people even refused to move onto Condition Zero. The very same could happen here. Again the same thing happened when CSS was introduced, people moved to CSS, however you can still very easily play 1.6 to this day. A very large portion of the Counter Strike Competitive scene actually prefers CS 1.6 over CSS, and look how old that game is. It's running on the GoldSRC engine. The way you're portraying L4D2's release is like in your mind, the second the full game goes live, the life support for L4D1 will be pulled and all the servers will mysteriously disappear. It just will not work like that. Sure L4D2 will make a dent in L4D1's community and activity, but that's to be expected and it's inevitable, with all types of future releases, sequels and similar rip-off games.

Although the L4D team have promised future L4D1 content to help support L4D1, the one thing I do agree on where they messed up was the promise of future characters and weapons in the same game. Other than that I don't think they've really messed around their community. They've updated the game quite a bit. Not in a perfect manner or fashion I agree again. However I don't think the TF2 team is helping with the huge exceptions and raised bar they've set, when in comparison to L4D. Hence why I don't think it's fair to compare the two games to each other.

Lastly I think people have also forgotten the way Valve works. People at Valve all work under the same corporation name, but they're split up into separate teams: L4D,TF,CS,DOD,HL.
So when you say you hate Valve because they created L4D2, that also means you're hating on the people at Valve with nothing to do with L4D. For instance the people that create one of the best games of all time in my opinion: Half-life.