[Suggestion] Degreaser balance.

[RampantMana]

Originally Posted by videofreak

It's not the Degreaser that needs a nerf, it's the flamethrower that needs a buff.
Once the Degreaser has -10% damage penalty and the Backburner doesn't have a bonus the Pyro will be on the road to recovery.

Agreed, the degreaser may need a 10% damage penalty.

[Heisterburg]

Originally Posted by RampantMana

Agreed, the degreaser may need a 10% damage penalty.

You know he was referring to the Flamethrower getting +10% damage, and there being not actually changes to the Degreaser or Backburner, just leaving their damage at the current values, right?

[RampantMana]

Originally Posted by Heisterburg

You know he was referring to the Flamethrower getting +10% damage, and there being not actually changes to the Degreaser or Backburner, just leaving their damage at the current values, right?

I would be ok with that if the weapon switch was 40% and no afterburn damage.

[KajiVena]

The Degreaser may be an upgrade, but, unlike the Flamethrower, it's a balanced primary weapon.

The issue is the Flamethrower, not the Degreaser.

[Assbandit]

Originally Posted by KajiVena

The Degreaser may be an upgrade, but, unlike the Flamethrower, it's a balanced primary weapon.

The issue is the Flamethrower, not the Degreaser.

The only problem I have with the Degreaser is that it synergizes way too well with the Flare Gun, Reserve Shooter, and especially Axtinguisher. I realize it's a combo flamethrower, but it's way, way too efficient for my liking.

[RampantMana]

Originally Posted by Assbandit

The only problem I have with the Degreaser is that it synergizes way too well with the Flare Gun, Reserve Shooter, and especially Axtinguisher. I realize it's a combo flamethrower, but it's way, way too efficient for my liking.

Basically all this.

[ungulateman]

Originally Posted by Assbandit

The only problem I have with the Degreaser is that it synergizes way too well with the Flare Gun, Reserve Shooter, and especially Axtinguisher. I realize it's a combo flamethrower, but it's way, way too efficient for my liking.

Maybe that's what it's supposed to do.

I'd say once the Pyro as a whole is actually balanced it should get a serious downside (something like reduced afterburn duration and possibly a direct damage penalty as well), but that can wait for more pressing issues - like all of the Heavy put together.

[Rec0nKn1ght]

Originally Posted by KajiVena

The Degreaser may be an upgrade, but, unlike the Flamethrower, it's a balanced primary weapon.

The issue is the Flamethrower, not the Degreaser.

Are you seriously suggesting that the backburner and phlogistinator are as good as the degreaser?

Backburner is a tough precision weapon, the +10% makes little difference, and the airblast has to be used conservatively. The phlogistinator sacrifices so much versatility for a brief moment of glory.

I think both are fun to use... but as good as the degreaser? Nah.

[Crespo_PL]

degreaser is an outrageously overpowered item that would have been nerfed long ago should it had been given to any other class (in its respective primary weapon form)

but since it has been given to a class that the majority can't play properly, apparently it's fine

[KajiVena]

Originally Posted by Rec0nKn1ght

Are you seriously suggesting that the backburner and phlogistinator are as good as the degreaser?

Backburner is a tough precision weapon, the +10% makes little difference, and the airblast has to be used conservatively. The phlogistinator sacrifices so much versatility for a brief moment of glory.

I think both are fun to use... but as good as the degreaser? Nah.

Backburner is the best flamer for ambushing. Situational does not mean Unbalanced. I've even seen successful Backburner Pyro play in 6v6. Just as good, in a different way. Degreaser for general use, Backburner for ambushing.

Phlog is the kind of junk I'd expect Valve to keep spewing out from now on...

[Alamo29]

Maybe if the back-crits were reliable and more maps were better designed with side routes to flank the enemy. I mean, I do use the Backburner on occasion, but it needs a little something extra. I can think of maybe three maps where situations to use it effectively come up regularly.

I've always rather liked the idea of giving the Pyro 200 base health, and having the unlock flamethrowers like the Degreaser and Backburner have a negative trait of "-25 health", or something along those lines.