Wow, it all just clicked

[Bill Dukenfield]

I bought this game the day it came out on Steam and spent a very frustrating couple of days with it. Every time I headed for a base I'd Neil Armstrong it and overshoot or just end up completely disorientated and crash. I think my balance was down to $-50,000 at one point from all the new landers! I came very close to just giving up.

For some reason it all just clicked today and I'm zooming around in cockpit mode like a pro. I've no idea what changed or why, but the moral is don't give up; it's hard at the start but when it all falls in to place this game is great!

[Bish0p]

Originally Posted by Bill Dukenfield

I bought this game the day it came out on Steam and spent a very frustrating couple of days with it. Every time I headed for a base I'd Neil Armstrong it and overshoot or just end up completely disorientated and crash. I think my balance was down to $-50,000 at one point from all the new landers! I came very close to just giving up.

For some reason it all just clicked today and I'm zooming around in cockpit mode like a pro. I've no idea what changed or why, but the moral is don't give up; it's hard at the start but when it all falls in to place this game is great!

Lol glad to hear it. It's really fun, once you figure out, how much your capable of.

[UndeadRufus]

I'm in a similar boat: currently at -$25,000 and have yet to complete a mission or even land successfully. With only one achievement unlocked (the one for crashing), I stepped away two days ago. Too many other games in my library that I can actually play. Might go back eventually, because the concept is beautifully realized, but it's just a headache right now.

[Bill Dukenfield]

Until you get better just keep the lander upright and use the Velocity Vector to 'aim' the lander. If you're using an XBox controller:

- use the main thrust to position the VV marker vertically
- the left stick left and right to position the marker horizontally
- left stick forward and back to control speed
- bumper buttons to spin the lander in the direction you're travelling

Once you get the hang of that then move on to tilting the lander in the direction you want to go, but it becomes much harder.

[Bish0p]

Originally Posted by UndeadRufus

I'm in a similar boat: currently at -$25,000 and have yet to complete a mission or even land successfully. With only one achievement unlocked (the one for crashing), I stepped away two days ago. Too many other games in my library that I can actually play. Might go back eventually, because the concept is beautifully realized, but it's just a headache right now.

Make an alt and just have fun for a day, getting use to it, that's what I did..

I was all over the place at first. Try getting a lot of altitude, then just getting comfortable, with situating yourself. Not as stressful, when you are high up. Make less mistakes, due to stress.

Also might try, just taking it very slow at first. Keep the lander upright and facing forward. It makes it much easier to know, what to press. As long as you keep facing forward and keep a safe, slow speed, it will help a lot..

GL.

[Pierre]

Same here, it clicked for me today after a few days of learning. It's incredibly satisfying when that happens!

[Pierre]

So many modern games are too user friendly. I guess you have to be around 30YO to remember the days when games were challenging.
Lunar Flight, is to me, a throwback to the days of properly challenging games; when you "click" with it it feels so rewarding!

[UndeadRufus]

Originally Posted by Pierre

So many modern games are too user friendly. I guess you have to be around 30YO to remember the days when games were challenging.
Lunar Flight, is to me, a throwback to the days of properly challenging games; when you "click" with it it feels so rewarding!

User friendly != not a challenge. In fact, not being user friendly is often a symptom of bad design and/or dev laziness.

Lunar Flight is user friendly enough: clean interface, relatively straightforward controls, a fair explanation of how the game works, etc. Yes, I am 30+, yet the only throwback sense I get from LF is that it's a nod to the old lander games from my childhood. It's a modern effort in every other way, which I think is a good thing.

As for it being "properly challenging," I guess that's relative to the individual. I love a challenge, but I think Lunar Flight's learning curve is a bit too steep. I understand that it is rewarding to finally reach that "click" moment, but I don't yet think it's rewarding enough that I'll hang around to earn back the ~$30,000 I've been docked for crashing. I want to like this game, a lot, but it does its best to keep me on the fence.

[MIK3K]

The dev made some great training videos that explain everything. These should be mandatory viewing. It 'clicked' for me after watching the vids and realizing everything I was doing was fun but wrong.

[UndeadRufus]

Originally Posted by MIK3K

The dev made some great training videos that explain everything. These should be mandatory viewing. It 'clicked' for me after watching the vids and realizing everything I was doing was fun but wrong.

The training videos are very useful for learning the controls, cameras and how to complete objectives. However, very little is offered that helps with actually controlling your craft. That remains strictly a trial-and-error process. Maybe it is inherently so, because I can only imagine how convoluted a "flying lesson" would be in this game. That said, something like an attitude auto-correct would be a welcome feature in practice mode.

[sh0v0r]

Originally Posted by UndeadRufus

User friendly != not a challenge. In fact, not being user friendly is often a symptom of bad design and/or dev laziness.

Lunar Flight is user friendly enough: clean interface, relatively straightforward controls, a fair explanation of how the game works, etc. Yes, I am 30+, yet the only throwback sense I get from LF is that it's a nod to the old lander games from my childhood. It's a modern effort in every other way, which I think is a good thing.

As for it being "properly challenging," I guess that's relative to the individual. I love a challenge, but I think Lunar Flight's learning curve is a bit too steep. I understand that it is rewarding to finally reach that "click" moment, but I don't yet think it's rewarding enough that I'll hang around to earn back the ~$30,000 I've been docked for crashing. I want to like this game, a lot, but it does its best to keep me on the fence.

Thanks for sharing your review Rufus. I think you make a fair assessment of the game overall. I appreciate that the game can polarise people and also find some people in the middle like yourself. Ultimately the game is as you are aware a work of one person so I tried to focus on the areas I knew where most important given the time and resources I have.

The Flight School videos cover everything you need to know but they don't teach you how to become a good pilot. I personally think that's where the reward comes from. If you were told the precise way of flying I'm not sure it would have the same sense of rewarding discovery. In the end the game does ask something of you and that is to practice, learn and understand the dynamics of how the craft behaves. Ultimately that's what flight simulators are about, learning the limits of the craft and mastering it.

I thought about adding flight aids for new pilots but I also felt this was contradictory to what the core game experience and challenge is. By giving you ways to circumvent the physics the game looses it core challenge and becomes a pointless exercise as you are not accomplishing anything of value.

If you want tips on how to fly, hit the official forums there are some really good pilots on there that are more than happy to offer advice.

[UndeadRufus]

Originally Posted by sh0v0r

I thought about adding flight aids for new pilots but I also felt this was contradictory to what the core game experience and challenge is. By giving you ways to circumvent the physics the game looses it core challenge and becomes a pointless exercise as you are not accomplishing anything of value.

I do understand that position, but I don't think I'm accomplishing anything of value by crashing repeatedly, either. The game is gorgeous and brilliant, but it's also utterly unforgiving, maybe prohibitively so. An attitude auto-correct in practice mode would be an optional feature that hardcore sim players could ignore, and it might convince some casual players to not throw in the towel so soon. I'm apparently a lonely minority on this, though, at least 'round these parts.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02 of criticism. As noted in my review, despite the off-putting difficulty, the game is a technical marvel, especially since you're "flying solo" for the most part. So congrats for that achievement.

[scotttaylor]

I'm 17 hours into this thing and it's awesome. One of the best simulation experiences I have seen in a long time. I've never flown a lunar module on the moon (yet!) but I have to say the physics seem extremely realistic given the low G environment of the moon. I crashed repeatedly at first, reset my profile a number of times until I started making forward progress. A game controller should be considered mandatory. At first I tried to use the keyboard and was only able to use translation jets to move about without getting disoriented and out of control. If I tried to use pitch and roll on the keyboard it was next to impossible to regain or maintain attitude control. The XBox game controller was difficult at first but soon I was able to use pitch and roll to vector the main engine thrust to move about more quickly. Now I'm using full screen cockpit only display and with all the various displays and feedback (OHD, HUD, rotation rate display, artificial horizon, main thrust power output, etc.) I'm able to control the LM fairly well but still feel like I have a long way to go which is what keeps me coming back. I'm a software engineer with 22 years of experience in scientific, engineering, and satellite technology. This is a great piece of work and the developers should be very proud!

[ImSorry]

Originally Posted by scotttaylor

A game controller should be considered mandatory.

I just want to say that flying with the keyboard is perfectly valid. (I use it!) The trick for me was finding a control scheme that worked with my keyboard to mitigate keyboard ghosting.
I do have a logitech rumblepad, and I've tried to get used to it for this game, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. I'm sure I probably could though if I kept at it..

Also, Bishop's advice on facing forward is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! Especially when you're landing.. It's VERY difficult to land if you're not facing the pad. Get used to rotating that LM, and setting yourself up for the landing!

[sh0v0r]

Originally Posted by ImSorry

I just want to say that flying with the keyboard is perfectly valid. (I use it!) The trick for me was finding a control scheme that worked with my keyboard to mitigate keyboard ghosting.
I do have a logitech rumblepad, and I've tried to get used to it for this game, but I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. I'm sure I probably could though if I kept at it..

Also, Bishop's advice on facing forward is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! Especially when you're landing.. It's VERY difficult to land if you're not facing the pad. Get used to rotating that LM, and setting yourself up for the landing!

The fact that you set the highest Time Trial times and fly with the keyboard is astonishing even to me!