Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2017, 03:23 PM   #61
TailsTheeFox
 
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Reputation: 810
Posts: 1,339
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4m0 View Post
skill floor is a measure of the effectiveness of the class at the lowest level, not the amount of skill needed.
Wrong.



Quote:
demo is at his weakest in prem/invite because scouts can aim
Wrong.



Quote:
soldier is better than demoman
Wrong.

Quote:
i can't tell whether you're a pub demoman
Ignored.
Keep your ignorant comments and petty insults to yourself. If you're not going to bother actually bringing up points and support for your remarks then don't get into a discussion. If you bother trying to post a followup to this with details actually added to your post, I will ignore it.
I will however finish responding to your awful post.

Quote:
who thinks demo is easy
I have never once said Demo was easy. Similarly I've acknowledged that Scout not only beats Demo but any 1v1 in the game. This does not make him the best class in the game, this makes him annoying and very strong, very close to Demo's raw power, but Demo...
....
You know what, what am I doing? You actually think that Soldier is stronger than Demo. And just insult people while cutting your posts down to simple responses with no reasoning behind it besides childishly saying the equivalent to "I'm right"!
Bugger off mate.

Last edited by TailsTheeFox: 04-20-2017 at 03:32 PM.
TailsTheeFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2017, 10:53 PM   #62
d4m0
 
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Reputation: 2399
Posts: 6,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
I have never once said Demo was easy. Similarly I've acknowledged that Scout not only beats Demo but any 1v1 in the game. This does not make him the best class in the game, this makes him annoying and very strong, very close to Demo's raw power, but Demo...
....
You know what, what am I doing? You actually think that Soldier is stronger than Demo. And just insult people while cutting your posts down to simple responses with no reasoning behind it besides childishly saying the equivalent to "I'm right"!
Bugger off mate.
it's funny that you're spending so much time telling me that I'm wrong because you're the one posting blatantly wrong things

and getting triggered about it for some reason
d4m0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:04 AM   #63
caldoran
 
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 4839
Posts: 11,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
cutting your posts down to simple responses with no reasoning behind it besides childishly saying the equivalent to "I'm right"!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
Ignored.
excuse me

On a separate note, I think the whole discussion boils down to the fact that coined terms result in something similar to popularity contests - The more popular definitions win.

Without something authoritative like dictionaries to definitively declare what the coined term means, it's entirely based on how well these definitions can propagate themselves from person to person, and as I said, the more popular definitions win.

I've always understood and agreed with the definition of the skill floor being the minimum amount of skill required to be effective with a character/class/hero/whatever. In that sense, the Heavy and the Medic have low skill floors, while the Sniper has a higher one. I believe this is the more popular definition thus far.

Of course, both definitions are intuitive in their own way, and this age-old debate will likely never end as they make sense to different people in different ways. The popularity contest will tell us in a few years, if it'll even resolve by then.

Last edited by caldoran: 04-21-2017 at 02:24 AM.
caldoran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 05:43 AM   #64
Thurbo
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Reputation: 2082
Posts: 5,797
Before any word was written down in a dictionary they all went through that popularity contest. Language only works that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timerlane View Post
Maybe it wouldn't be said if the Soda Popper had any actual downsides for those first two shots(which is all you need to kill 8/9 classes without overheal), didn't have half the firing interval, and couldn't clip-reload its two shots slightly faster than the Scattergun can reload two.

Let's also not forget that every other non-timed-charge meter in the game involves dealing actual damage to players to earn(only exception I can think of being Jarate-thrown assists for Focus on the Heatmaker, and taking damage on the old Battalion's Backup, which could only be farmed without risk on rare environmental hazards), instead of...just running to mid.
Soda Popper was never actually better than the Scattergun in practice.

There's a ton of meters that are charged not by dealing damage. Technically, reloading weapons is such a meter. It's irrelevant whether this mechanic exists in another form, it should be treated for what it is; just another upside. It's people getting in the wrong mindset over something like this.

Last edited by Thurbo: 04-21-2017 at 05:47 AM.
Thurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 07:08 AM   #65
caldoran
 
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 4839
Posts: 11,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbo View Post
Before any word was written down in a dictionary they all went through that popularity contest. Language only works that way.
I am aware of that. However, coined gaming terms usually do not have an equivalent "authority" (i.e. dictionaries), so to speak.

That's how we end up with disputes over the definition of terms like "skill floor".
caldoran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 08:15 AM   #66
TailsTheeFox
 
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Reputation: 810
Posts: 1,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by caldoran View Post
excuse me.
What? I did that on purpose, he wanted to boil it down to simple responses because he's wrong and has no support for his claims. I couldn't even support sticking to one word responses because I started addressing his points below anyways in the rest of my post.

Hell the first thing is something only he's saying, other folks in the thread are agreeing with me and brought up points about it and I even explained where the terminology came from and why I was using and what it meant(MOBA's). He however doesn't explain , he just repeats himself expecting it to suddenly not be wrong anymore just because he repeated it. No swaying arguement, no acknowledgement of what others have said about it... Just...
Restating information with no new points to support it and having his post devolve into petty insults.
I simply refuse to repeat myself there, if he's so ing incapable of reading and bringing up counterpoints to support his claim, then there is zero reason to spend any time devolving into endlessly repeating myself when all of his posts go into the same trend.
"*Repeated information that has been successfully argued against and with no new support.*
*I'm right.*
*petty insult goes here*."
Ergo wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wronggity wrong wrong wrrrrrroooong..!
If he, or you, want more to that simple handwaved wrong, then bother reading the other posts. And if you can make a post that has points against it to support the other way it's being used(which makes no ing sense because skill ceiling is being used properly) then you won't get a post that's boiled down to "wrong", you'll actually get a detailed response back. However, considering that he didn't bother reading anything, and went about insulting me atop of that, I was under no obligation to give him any more of my time, hell I'm dissapointed I made my post that long anyways because my obligation towards actually explaining things instead of being a TF2 dev and just giving the bare minimum of information.

I'll make another example.
Me: "A."
Demo: "B."
Me: "Explanation of why point A is better than point B."
Demo: "b. Stupid insult."
Me: "You just resaid B slightly different and insulted me."
Demo: "B is right. Stupid insult."
Me: -done talking with Demo-

I hope this properly explains things, if you still have questions feel ing free to ask.
Done trying with him.
TailsTheeFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 08:45 AM   #67
d4m0
 
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Reputation: 2399
Posts: 6,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbo View Post
Soda Popper was never actually better than the Scattergun in practice.
It certainly was at one point, although it isn't since it was recently changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsTheeFox View Post
Demo
damo

not demo

demo would be d3m0

d4m0 = damo

feel free to say i'm wrong here too, and you'll be just as accurate as all the other times!

Last edited by d4m0: 04-21-2017 at 08:50 AM.
d4m0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 08:06 PM   #68
___
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Reputation: 1683
Posts: 1,605
lol demo isn't even good nowadays and he is literally trash without heals on pubs

in comp he's not even in the top half of most useful teammates

demo in *the current year*
___ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 03:55 AM   #69
MysticTheMeeM
 
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Reputation: 1437
Posts: 3,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4m0 View Post
damo

not demo

demo would be d3m0

d4m0 = damo
I'm still going to call you Domo.
MysticTheMeeM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 09:40 AM   #70
Thurbo
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Reputation: 2082
Posts: 5,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4m0 View Post
It certainly was at one point, although it isn't since it was recently changed.
No, Scattergun was always more reliable in the same way that Spies don't usually run Ambassador even if it's technically the primary with the most potential. To have the Soda Popper work out better for you than the Scattergun your aim needed to be unreasonably good; it's hard to adjust aim between the shots because of how fast they fired, yet it wasn't fast enough to make up for changes in the enemy's position.
Thurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 10:38 AM   #71
d4m0
 
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Reputation: 2399
Posts: 6,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbo View Post
No, Scattergun was always more reliable in the same way that Spies don't usually run Ambassador even if it's technically the primary with the most potential. To have the Soda Popper work out better for you than the Scattergun your aim needed to be unreasonably good; it's hard to adjust aim between the shots because of how fast they fired, yet it wasn't fast enough to make up for changes in the enemy's position.
you don't balance around people who can't aim...

i have a mate whose aim is unreasonably good -- well I have several since i hang out with comp players, but this guy was on my intermediate team for most of last year, originally as a scout, and he always screws around with broken unlocks so he knows his . And he always said that the soda popper was ridiculous before the changes but worse than stock ever since. I've always been a scout who usually just used stock for practice so I don't have first hand experience, but if he said it then he's probably correct.

and plenty of good spies do use the ambassador lmao (because they can aim too and that's who you should balance around)
d4m0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site Content Copyright Valve Corporation 1998-2015, All Rights Reserved.