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Old 04-07-2017, 03:31 AM   #1
Xazo-Tak
 
 
 
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Why are no-support-class servers not a thing?

I know I'm not the only one who things that the support classes don't fit into TF2.
Sniper relies on the enemy team being too far away to fight him, and also he's really hard to see on low graphics settings thanks to his tan skin, slim figure, and dark clothing. Like, I can be looking for a sniper, knowing exactly where they are, then only spot them when the camera zooms in on them after they shoot me.
Spy relies on the enemy team being too distracted to fight him. Or not completely paranoid. A big bonus to the paranoia is that even if you kill him once, you can be pretty much guaranteed he's still alive and will immediately backstab you if you actually try and play the game.
And Medic, although not as hated as the above two, is that class that makes or breaks a game but will only be employed well by organised teams, which makes pubstomper teams even more fun ruining. Also sticks like glue to really strong demos and soldiers, and who on Earth finds it fun to fight a really good Soldier who has a colossal health advantage?

inb4 "Engineer will be overpowered"
Often, the reason teams struggle to take out sentries is because they're wasting too many slots on support classes.
Also, the whole thing with a lack of health without Medic could be dealt with by introducing slight regen to all classes and making small healthkits regen 1/3rd health rather than 1/5th. Perhaps a dispenser build speed boost too, dispensers take way too long to build.

I would absolutely love to see a server like this; sure, a lot of you may absolutely hate the concept, especially all the Medic mains (God forbid there are any Sniper/Spy mains here, everybody looks down on you) but a unique server sure as hell beats trade_minecraft #9001.
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:04 AM   #2
sham1
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
I know I'm not the only one who things that the support classes don't fit into TF2.
How do you know that. Also, if you know that you're not the only one who thinks that support classes don't belong in this game [sic], why do you think these kinds of servers do not exist yet.

I'll tell you why. Your idea is total bonkers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
Sniper relies on the enemy team being too far away to fight him, and also he's really hard to see on low graphics settings thanks to his tan skin, slim figure, and dark clothing. Like, I can be looking for a sniper, knowing exactly where they are, then only spot them when the camera zooms in on them after they shoot me.
And if the Sniper wasn't allowed in the game, people could just walk in the open without any kind of danger. The presence of a Sniper makes it so that enemies have to be more careful.

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Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
Spy relies on the enemy team being too distracted to fight him. Or not completely paranoid. A big bonus to the paranoia is that even if you kill him once, you can be pretty much guaranteed he's still alive and will immediately backstab you if you actually try and play the game.
...That's kind of the point? Spy is there to do, well, espionage and to be a distraction mostly. So if they manage that, then mission accomplished. That's not a reason to ban them though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
And Medic, although not as hated as the above two, is that class that makes or breaks a game but will only be employed well by organised teams, which makes pubstomper teams even more fun ruining. Also sticks like glue to really strong demos and soldiers, and who on Earth finds it fun to fight a really good Soldier who has a colossal health advantage?
First of all, I do find it fun to fight a "really good Soldier who has a colossal health advantage". They're so fun to bring down with couple of shots.

Second of all, your argument here is essentially "teamwork is overpowered, thus we need to ban a class that relies on teamwork".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
inb4 "Engineer will be overpowered"
Often, the reason teams struggle to take out sentries is because they're wasting too many slots on support classes.
[Citation needed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
Also, the whole thing with a lack of health without Medic could be dealt with by introducing slight regen to all classes and making small healthkits regen 1/3rd health rather than 1/5th. Perhaps a dispenser build speed boost too, dispensers take way too long to build.
Okay.
  1. Regen. ♥♥♥♥ no, don't put that ♥♥♥♥ onto my ♥♥♥♥ing Quake-like shooters, ever. And no, I don't particurlarly like Medic's regen either, although it's so pitiful it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things assuming the medic is doing something.
  2. And essentially make medium healthkits less useful seeing as small healthkits are more abundant because, well, they heal less
  3. If you were to change the dispenser, at least make it heal slightly faster instead of doing this stuff. Currently the problem with dispensers is that it foces people so close together that they can be killed at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
(God forbid there are any Sniper/Spy mains here, everybody looks down on you)
Sniper main, and people do not look down on me.

Last edited by sham1: 04-07-2017 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:14 AM   #3
TuxedoRex
 
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Engineer isn't a support class?
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:25 AM   #4
MysticTheMeeM
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
all the Medic mains
Even if I wasn't a medic main something this silly would jarate me off.
I won't go into it because I feel sham covered the key points but really, most of this sounds like a whine.

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Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
(God forbid there are any Sniper/Spy mains here, everybody looks down on you)
"I don't like how you play the game so you're an inferior person".
And this is why your attitude triggers me.
Some weird attempt at anti-sniper/spy circlejerking without any reasoning bar "I don't like getting one-shot" or "they distract me".
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:27 AM   #5
A Dapper Apple
 
 
 
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Man, with all the tank and support spam in OW, it often feels like no one actually dies in that game.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:30 AM   #6
Thurbo
 
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This is all just made-up blabber to support your claims. You say Medics are not good in pubs because teams with teamwork will get infinitely more usage out of a Medic than a team without teamwork. But Engineers will suddenly be dealt with appropriately both by non-teamwork and teamwork teams because the pesky support classes are no longer eating up all those bullets!! Right?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxedoRex View Post
Engineer isn't a support class?
He's going by the game's segmentation of Offense, Defense, and Support, so in his mind Engineer is just Defense I guess.
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:32 AM   #7
gen. DeGroot
 
 
 
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Medic is a support class though
you gonna take people's healing away now
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Old 04-07-2017, 09:40 AM   #8
MysticTheMeeM
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by gen. DeGroot View Post
Medic is a support class though
you gonna take people's healing away now
THEY'RE TAKING ME HEALTHCARE!
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:48 AM   #9
Xazo-Tak
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sham1 View Post
And if the Sniper wasn't allowed in the game, people could just walk in the open without any kind of danger. The presence of a Sniper makes it so that enemies have to be more careful.
That's... not a bad thing?
What, does the game need to have it so that you get instakilled unless you play it like a cover-based shooter?

Also, I don't want to quote your wall of text block by block, but:
-Yes, Spy should play the role of espionage and distraction, I respect spies who can draw away multiple players, but my point was that Spy does the opposite and relies on distraction. i.e. he hides around a corner, waits for gunfire sounds, then gets stabby because watching your back isn't really an option when there's a kill-or-be-killed situation with the enemy right in front of you.
-Sure, it's TEAM Fortress 2, but that doesn't change that a team being well organised enough to make good use of a Medic is a bad thing outside of competitive. When one team absolutely steamrolls another, a Medic is probably a big part of why. People playing in pubs shouldn't be expected to be organised, if one team is organised and the other isn't it's purely bad luck for the disorganised team, the members of which should not be punished because the team sorting algorithm gave the enemy team a great Medic with several great power classes to heal but made their team composed entirely of lone wolves.
-You say health regen isn't Quakelike, but what's more Quakelike; a little bit of health regen to make it so that people attacking aren't constantly on low health from chip damage alone, or a medigun that grants a player a massive advantage over their opponents, making them almost impossible to kill solo without an instakill weapon? Not to mention that the medic also allows players to just run and hide when they get hurt. Medic is the least Quakelike class in the game, the whole point of Quake was that it was fair combat and nothing more.

Also, you're taking this like I'm saying "These 3 classes should be removed from the game" when really I'm just wanting this as a gimmick for some pub servers.
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Old 04-08-2017, 02:56 AM   #10
Xazo-Tak
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbo View Post
This is all just made-up blabber to support your claims. You say Medics are not good in pubs because teams with teamwork will get infinitely more usage out of a Medic than a team without teamwork. But Engineers will suddenly be dealt with appropriately both by non-teamwork and teamwork teams because the pesky support classes are no longer eating up all those bullets!! Right?!



He's going by the game's segmentation of Offense, Defense, and Support, so in his mind Engineer is just Defense I guess.
That's a fair point about Engineers, but no one here can be sure that Engineer would be a problem on a server that had no medics, instead having regen and more healthkits.
Because such a server, to my knowledge, has never existed.
It'd be naive to assume that a no-support-class-server has never existed given the sheer number of community servers that have existed over the years, but it's likely that one has never existed; I've never seen a single server that restricts class, aside from Sniper-only servers.
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:27 AM   #11
The Medic
 
 
 
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Because, believe it or not, people like playing 1/3 of the classes in this game.
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:57 AM   #12
Xazo-Tak
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by The Medic View Post
Because, believe it or not, people like playing 1/3 of the classes in this game.
So?
Servers made for people who really hate that 1/3rd of classes wouldn't affect the people who like those classes.
That's the whole point of community servers.

If snipers can have their sniper-only servers, why can't sniper haters have their no-sniper servers?
In fact, although I can understand that "no support classes" is a bit too radical a change for most, why are there no no-sniper servers?
Sniper gets more hate than any other class in the game, and while a lot of people would be extremely happy to play TF2 without being the duck in Duck Hunt, not too many people would be annoyed by the gimmick of the server because a lot of people who play multiple classes will barely touch Sniper, snipers are usually Sniper mains in my experience.
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Old 04-08-2017, 05:00 AM   #13
sham1
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
So?
Servers made for people who really hate that 1/3rd of classes wouldn't affect the people who like those classes.
That's the whole point of community servers.

If snipers can have their sniper-only servers, why can't sniper haters have their no-sniper servers?
In fact, although I can understand that "no support classes" is a bit too radical a change for most, why are there no no-sniper servers?
Sniper gets more hate than any other class in the game, and while a lot of people would be extremely happy to play TF2 without being the duck in Duck Hunt, not too many people would be annoyed by the gimmick of the server because a lot of people who play multiple classes will barely touch Sniper, snipers are usually Sniper mains in my experience.
For the bolded.

And besides, why don't *you* create this dream server of yours, advertise it around and see if it catches on. It's not that hard to rent a server and put a dedicated TF2 server onto it.
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Old 04-08-2017, 07:02 AM   #14
TailsTheeFox
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by sham1 View Post
For the bolded.

And besides, why don't *you* create this dream server of yours, advertise it around and see if it catches on. It's not that hard to rent a server and put a dedicated TF2 server onto it.
Which, unless it creates this zen-like state you propose it will do, it will probably quickly die off.
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Old 04-08-2017, 09:52 AM   #15
Thurbo
 
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Originally Posted by Xazo-Tak View Post
That's a fair point about Engineers, but no one here can be sure that Engineer would be a problem on a server that had no medics, instead having regen and more healthkits.
Because such a server, to my knowledge, has never existed.
Maybe you should just be banned from this forum because then every other member will get a million dollars for free.

We can't be sure that this won't happen because, to my knowledge, someone called Xazo-Tak has never been banned from a forum for money.
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