Hire Chuck Jones again

Neveos · 11-03-2009, 08:56 PM

I've always had beef with the recent depictions of Gordon in comparison to the original ones, but I think it has to do with the fact that Valve didn't utilize the same artists. I guess the original Gordon was pioneered by Chuck Jones, and then refined by Dhabih Eng, but Half life 2 depictions were exclusively done by Dhabih, but that isn't saying everything, really, since the newer depictions are an amalgamate of certain Valve employees faces that Dhabih had to use!

BLAH!! So that's what happened to Gordon!! He was turned into an averaging of computer geeks!!

Finally, I understand why I've been having these repulsions. A goatee and a pair of glasses can make many people look the same, but I can tell... I can tell.

Anyway, besides all of this, Chuck Jones was a famous tattoo artist and his artwork pioneered the saga:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Chuck_Jones

It's way more outlandish, and I can see where this is useful for stretching the rubber-band, so to speak, but I think it's pretty amazing conceptual artwork. I bet Dhabih was able to turn it more realistic, but Chuck's idealistic style seems iconic of the first game. In fact, I would go so far as to postulate that it was his style that went into the original "WON" menu screen (if any of you remember how awesome that looked) and why this "hot-shot" style seems to have been forgotten in the recent games.

Basically, I would be in interested in Chuck Jones revamping some stuff in the saga (assuming he didn't, somehow, fall off the face of the Earth into rehab land), if not experience some form positive stimulus.

Zekiran · 11-03-2009, 10:14 PM

I'd far rather keep the current version. I think we discussed this in another thread.

mimaz98 · 11-03-2009, 10:15 PM

I, too, prefer the current version.

Neveos · 11-04-2009, 12:29 AM

Eh, speaking of half life art, I've been doing a little story-boarding for a movie project. Lend me your ear for this one.

It'll be switching between the 3 core protagonists and this is one of the transitions between Adrian and Gordon:

First, I always write to the background music so click on this link, and let it load:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uvbANB6oIY

Then you can use this image shack slide show thing or whatever to follow along with the lyrics at the bottom of the drawing:

http://img692.imageshack.us/slidesho...id=1000845.jpg

relaxeder · 11-04-2009, 06:35 AM

Chuck Jones' artwork looked like the caliber of stuff a startup studio with a barebones development budget would solicit from an amateur character artist. No offense to him, his rendering talents have had over a decade to improve since then, but I'm just saying. His style was a little more "out there" and it probably made more sense at the time given both the state of 3D rendering and computer animation and Valve's design intents for the original game, but it wouldn't fit in the same now with the aesthetic direction the series took after HL2.

I think Dhabih Eng's stuff is beautiful.

Neveos · 11-04-2009, 11:18 AM

Right, I think I'm just saying that HL2 is simply recycling a lot of the artwork pioneered by Chuck Jones. The vortigaunts, the grunts, and the "hot shot" Gordon are shots in the dark that really hit home in the saga.

We really haven't moved past that, and the new stuff we have now is relatively bland despite it taking a seemingly realistic turn: such as the 2 combat synths or the combine soldier. Yeah it looks more realistic, but yes it looks too abstract and bland. There's more detail, but there's very little excitement in the details. We haven't had to really fight a unique enemy till the Strider/Hunter combo in episode 2, and I think the loss of Chuck might have something to do with that lack of diversity. Ya know, did he have a hand in the creation of many of the early HL2 enemies? Did he get fired or quit, and take those concepts with him?

We can see that the Gargantua looks like a direct copy from his concept art, and that was a very striking and unique enemy, that doesn't show up in HL2. Is the strider very unique?... yeah, but does anyone else see what I mean by bland? It just walks tall and shoots... I wasn't really overwhelmed by its behavior.

gorpie · 11-04-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neveos

We can see that the Gargantua looks like a direct copy from his concept art, and that was a very striking and unique enemy, that doesn't show up in HL2. Is the strider very unique?... yeah, but does anyone else see what I mean by bland? It just walks tall and shoots... I wasn't really overwhelmed by its behavior.

What about hunters? Were you overwhelmed by them?

Some of their changes make sense. HL1 was pretty much all Xen creatures, as far as I know, and there was no Combine. Now it's all Combine. Except we haven't even seen much of them yet--I'm pretty sure they have more than Advisors, Striders, Hunters, and the 2 flying things.

Who knows, if we go to another planet or something, we might see more of his stuff again. Unless there were "reasons" for his leaving.

maturin · 11-04-2009, 01:59 PM

Well I think your idea of bland is incredibly silly. Aliens like the Gargantua are overblown and silly, whereas the Striders and Hunters have excellent animations and sounds that imbue them with an amazing amount of character. Their appearance, meanwhile, is full of the understated style that sets Half-Life apart from Halo and Starship Troopers and the rest of the pap.

And while Dhabih Eng's depictions of Gordon may vary in quality, the best ones are so alive that they seem to project a deep, nuanced personality from a non-entity.

Neveos · 11-04-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maturin

Their appearance, meanwhile, is full of the understated style that sets Half-Life apart from Halo and Starship Troopers and the rest of the pap.

But that's just the thing, the new enemies are too much like starship troopers and Halo. The aliens, and their attacks, are unimaginative and nothing new. The antlions, being one of the only new enemies, are bugs from starship troopers. The Advisors, likewise.

The Metrocops you meet in the beginning of the game are pretty much the standard, trans-human, bread and butter enemy with a weaker weapon, and all of those are substantially less colorful than the HECU marine.

The synth chopper thing is nothing more than a helicopter fight, with a helicopter being more difficult in many ways. The striders are pretty much, right in line with that same style of fighting... get cover, fire rockets.

The zombies are, somewhat, more colorful this time around, yeah, but that would be pretty much the only thing I can say...

There you, go, quite literally, that's pretty much your class of enemies.

I mean, look at Chuck's concept art: he was proposing an alien which had an arm which functioned somewhat like a chainsaw... And there are plenty of other interesting alien behaviors in there as well. There's a certain virtue in what he was managing to do which is amiss in HL2.

Gordon He-Man · 11-04-2009, 03:19 PM

Isn't he the 'Daffy Duck' guy?
...and isn't he DEAD?

maturin · 11-04-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neveos

The Advisors, likewise.

The Advisors are actually a nice twist on the alien slug thing. They wear clothes.

Quote:

The Metrocops you meet in the beginning of the game are pretty much the standard, trans-human, bread and butter enemy with a weaker weapon, and all of those are substantially less colorful than the HECU marine.

Yet they have a huge panoply of excellent sound effects and dialog lines, and fit in well when rebels start shouting "CPs!"

I never understood why people get all weak in the knees over the HECU. Sure they had good AI for the time, but I'm talking style, not substance. They're... err, soldiers.

Quote:

The synth chopper thing is nothing more than a helicopter fight, with a helicopter being more difficult in many ways. The striders are pretty much, right in line with that same style of fighting... get cover, fire rockets.

Like I said above, I'm not talking gameplay.

Quote:

The zombies are, somewhat, more colorful this time around, yeah, but that would be pretty much the only thing I can say...

imho the zombies are pretty weak (zombine excepted)

[/quote]

Neveos · 11-04-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maturin

Yet they have a huge panoply of excellent sound effects and dialog lines, and fit in well when rebels start shouting "CPs!"

I never understood why people get all weak in the knees over the HECU. Sure they had good AI for the time, but I'm talking style, not substance. They're... err, soldiers.

Dude, I killed an HECU soldier, and as he dropped to his knees he said, "♥♥♥♥ you." That's awesome.

relaxeder · 11-04-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon He-Man

Isn't he the 'Daffy Duck' guy?
...and isn't he DEAD?

Different artist

Jinoru · 11-05-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neveos

Dude, I killed an HECU soldier, and as he dropped to his knees he said, "♥♥♥♥ you." That's awesome.

Duuuuuuude. freaking awesome.

Neveos · 11-05-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinoru

Duuuuuuude. freaking awesome.

Actually, what's more awesome is that I'm wrong. It was a vortigaunt that killed him, and I just heard it around the corner.

11-03-2009, 08:56 PM	#1
Neveos Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 100 Posts: 836	Hire Chuck Jones again I've always had beef with the recent depictions of Gordon in comparison to the original ones, but I think it has to do with the fact that Valve didn't utilize the same artists. I guess the original Gordon was pioneered by Chuck Jones, and then refined by Dhabih Eng, but Half life 2 depictions were exclusively done by Dhabih, but that isn't saying everything, really, since the newer depictions are an amalgamate of certain Valve employees faces that Dhabih had to use! BLAH!! So that's what happened to Gordon!! He was turned into an averaging of computer geeks!! Finally, I understand why I've been having these repulsions. A goatee and a pair of glasses can make many people look the same, but I can tell... I can tell. Anyway, besides all of this, Chuck Jones was a famous tattoo artist and his artwork pioneered the saga: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Chuck_Jones It's way more outlandish, and I can see where this is useful for stretching the rubber-band, so to speak, but I think it's pretty amazing conceptual artwork. I bet Dhabih was able to turn it more realistic, but Chuck's idealistic style seems iconic of the first game. In fact, I would go so far as to postulate that it was his style that went into the original "WON" menu screen (if any of you remember how awesome that looked) and why this "hot-shot" style seems to have been forgotten in the recent games. Basically, I would be in interested in Chuck Jones revamping some stuff in the saga (assuming he didn't, somehow, fall off the face of the Earth into rehab land), if not experience some form positive stimulus.

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11-03-2009, 10:14 PM	#2
Zekiran Join Date: Jun 2008 Reputation: 68 Posts: 3,484	I'd far rather keep the current version. I think we discussed this in another thread.

11-03-2009, 10:15 PM	#3
mimaz98 Join Date: Oct 2006 Reputation: 518 Posts: 17,054	I, too, prefer the current version.

11-04-2009, 12:29 AM	#4
Neveos Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 100 Posts: 836	Eh, speaking of half life art, I've been doing a little story-boarding for a movie project. Lend me your ear for this one. It'll be switching between the 3 core protagonists and this is one of the transitions between Adrian and Gordon: First, I always write to the background music so click on this link, and let it load: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uvbANB6oIY Then you can use this image shack slide show thing or whatever to follow along with the lyrics at the bottom of the drawing: http://img692.imageshack.us/slidesho...id=1000845.jpg

11-04-2009, 06:35 AM	#5
relaxeder Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 758 Posts: 1,769	Chuck Jones' artwork looked like the caliber of stuff a startup studio with a barebones development budget would solicit from an amateur character artist. No offense to him, his rendering talents have had over a decade to improve since then, but I'm just saying. His style was a little more "out there" and it probably made more sense at the time given both the state of 3D rendering and computer animation and Valve's design intents for the original game, but it wouldn't fit in the same now with the aesthetic direction the series took after HL2. I think Dhabih Eng's stuff is beautiful.

11-04-2009, 11:18 AM	#6
Neveos Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 100 Posts: 836	Right, I think I'm just saying that HL2 is simply recycling a lot of the artwork pioneered by Chuck Jones. The vortigaunts, the grunts, and the "hot shot" Gordon are shots in the dark that really hit home in the saga. We really haven't moved past that, and the new stuff we have now is relatively bland despite it taking a seemingly realistic turn: such as the 2 combat synths or the combine soldier. Yeah it looks more realistic, but yes it looks too abstract and bland. There's more detail, but there's very little excitement in the details. We haven't had to really fight a unique enemy till the Strider/Hunter combo in episode 2, and I think the loss of Chuck might have something to do with that lack of diversity. Ya know, did he have a hand in the creation of many of the early HL2 enemies? Did he get fired or quit, and take those concepts with him? We can see that the Gargantua looks like a direct copy from his concept art, and that was a very striking and unique enemy, that doesn't show up in HL2. Is the strider very unique?... yeah, but does anyone else see what I mean by bland? It just walks tall and shoots... I wasn't really overwhelmed by its behavior.

11-04-2009, 01:59 PM	#8
maturin Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 62 Posts: 501	Well I think your idea of bland is incredibly silly. Aliens like the Gargantua are overblown and silly, whereas the Striders and Hunters have excellent animations and sounds that imbue them with an amazing amount of character. Their appearance, meanwhile, is full of the understated style that sets Half-Life apart from Halo and Starship Troopers and the rest of the pap. And while Dhabih Eng's depictions of Gordon may vary in quality, the best ones are so alive that they seem to project a deep, nuanced personality from a non-entity.

11-04-2009, 03:19 PM	#10
Gordon He-Man Join Date: Aug 2005 Reputation: 100 Posts: 671	Isn't he the 'Daffy Duck' guy? ...and isn't he DEAD?