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Old 03-21-2010, 10:11 AM   #61
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Interesting fact: EvenBalance is so scared of Microsoft's legal department that they do not block Games For Window Live's overlay. Yet Steam's overlay is blocked.

Maybe Valve should take more proactive steps to get EvenBalance to fix this.

It would be fairly easy for Valve to hit EvenBalance with a lawsuit for anti-competitive behavior or damages on the grounds that:
  • VALVe develops an anti-cheat system which requires Steam to work
  • EvenBalance took steps to block one harmless feature of the Steam clients, impairing multiple Steam users from using their bought products
  • VALVe contacted EvenBalance about this change and EvenBalance refused to roll-back those changes on the grounds that it wasn't their responsibility
  • That particular feature of Steam is in no way considered a cheat (nor a threat to EvenBalance's business) and has no reason to be restricted
  • VALVe's reputation as well as the reputation of Publishers selling their game on Steam and using Punkbuster as been hurt due to EvenBalance's decision.
  • EvenBalance allows a similar program (GFWL) developed by a large multinational (Microsoft) to work without impeding, yet blocks the Steam Overlay.

Quite frankly, I do not think this would even go to court. The good cease-and-desist letter should be enough to make them change their minds. And if they shall refuse to see the light after this, we'll see what happens in court...

Any actions against the games using Punkbuster would be pointless as you would be hurting your business and your reputation with your Publishers... But nothing is preventing you from attacking EvenBalance itself... Please, do send that C&D.
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Old 03-21-2010, 04:03 PM   #62
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Thanks for the reply on this jmccaskey. Having a representative from Valve reply in a logical manner, compared to the childish/unprofessional responses from EvenBalance make it very apparent who's fault this is.

I agree that I will be boycotting any PB games in the future. In addition to that, Shock_wave sets a good example in that we should notify the game publishers why we're not buying their games, since it's not their fault directly, but they need to know they need to choose someone other than EvenBalance.

A Noobcake, this would probably be a pretty good list of the games we don't want: http://www.evenbalance.com/

That's quite an interesting find that they don't mess with Microsoft...

Good job guys for taking action instead of just whining on this forum. In the end, we're the ones with the dollars they want, and that's what gets things done!
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:11 PM   #63
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GFWL wouldn't cause any problems with PB though, as support for that is contained within the game itself - thus considered clean. The Steam overlay uses external hooking to integrate with games, hence getting you flagged as a filthy cheater.

Which GFWL titles use PB, by the way? Can't think of any personally...
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:27 AM   #64
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Evenbalance could quite easly put in a exemption for the steam overlay to prevent kicking, they just wont do that
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by nlessvenom View Post
Why can't punkbuster develop software that only detects cheats? Why does it recognized the most random crap as a cheat?
Propably because they cannot do something that blocks only this and that but block everything that should not be running at the same time. Much easier to block all than just block all and allow 1. Both technically possible but they seem to have a grudge or something. Does EA own EasyBalance?

What surprises me in this conversation is that Valve actually has approached and told why things are like they are. I guess the Steam developers are much more forum oriented than the actual game devs at Valve. I would like to see more of this behaviour. Props for this.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:13 PM   #66
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This ticket is currently locked. This means that you cannot add notes to this ticket. If you are still in need of support, please fill out another trouble ticket.
lol EB got tired of me.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:15 PM   #67
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Thumbs down Seriously.

I don't usually have anything bad to say about Steam. I am very aware that you guys contacted them, kudos to you guys for that, but that's not enough.

Both parties should be doing their everything to fix this issue. This situation does not even remotely makes sense.
This whole "Well, they have to go first" reminds me of my son with his little friends when they play around and somebody gets hurt. The other always have to say sorry first...

You guys are selling a broken product, no matter who's fault it is. Fix it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:25 PM   #68
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lucidique, they are not selling steam yet alone the overlay.

For EB games to tell a developer that they cannot upgrade their own software is pathetic. Everyone knows that EB is refusing to update PB to allow the same overlay that they had been since the overlay came out for their games.

Should game devs stop doing updates to games because EB said so?
Think again.

There's also nothing broken about the overlay.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:35 PM   #69
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I got this back
Note #2: The latest Steam update changed its in-game overlay routine, which leads to this kick. Nothing has been changed on our side. It's up to Valve to take back the changes they made. At this time you will need to disable the "Steam Community In-game" to play on PunkBuster enabled servers.
We apologize for the inconvenience.

I have asked them why they do not simply stop kicking for the steam overlay. I expect my ticket to be closed soon as well
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by L.o.D. View Post
lucidique, they are not selling steam yet alone the overlay.
They actually are. That's one of the bullet points advantages of buying a game on Steam instead of Brick and Mortar, or any other Digital Distribution site.

The overlay is not working just fine, unless you are able to use it as it was intended.

I can already see the comments coming, telling me to just de-activate it or to play on non-punkbuster servers. That is telling me to use a product i have purchased for a reason in a specific way other than the one(s) i bought it for.

Last edited by lucidique: 03-23-2010 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Ninja edit on grammar.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:04 PM   #71
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IF PB was not foolishly kicking people for using the overlay, it would be working as intended.
It works fine for every other game that can use the overlay without getting kicked.
There is absolutely NO reason for PB to kick for the overlay & for EB to try & tell ANY dev how they make their software is pathetic and a bad business practise to KNOWINGLY kick for something that should not be getting kicked for.
Who the hell are EB to tell someone what they can or cannot do with software they made?

Does PB kick for xfire's overlay?
If not, WHY not?
It's pretty much the same damn thing!

So I must assume that you think it's perfectly fine for EB to tell a game dev how to update/not update software they make instead of doing the right thing for an anticheat developer which is to keep up with the software changes being made?
I guess software developers must stop supporting their software because EB told them so?

Last edited by L.o.D.: 03-23-2010 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:44 PM   #72
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If VAC banned for PunkBuster, I wonder how EvenBalance would react.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:56 PM   #73
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Good question.
Maybe Valve should add it. LOL
That would sure get their attention!
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:42 PM   #74
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So to put get it all back in perspective, this is all over an overlay...frankly I don't even use the overlay (yet, seeing as WaW is my only game and right now I have no choice!), but it just p155es me off for EB/PB to force me to change something on a game/DRM I choose, due to EB's obvious laziness or incompetence! And again I emphasize, despite all this BS, people still cheat on the PB servers, so it's obviously not about them trying to maintain cheat integrity!
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:52 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by lucidique View Post
The overlay is not working just fine, unless you are able to use it as it was intended.
The overlay is working fine, it's due to a 3rd party bit of software that is causing the problem.

Does the overlay work alone - Yes
Does the games work - Yes
Does 3rd party software stop you playing the game using the overlay - Yes

Now to me thats a good view where the problem is.
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