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Old 06-14-2010, 09:09 AM   #151
internetf1fan
 
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Have you ever thought that PCs running Steam are less powerful because even though they are less powerful they aren't running OS X which is holding back the hardware in Macs so the end result being PCs running Windows use the full potential of the hardware and get better performance than superior hardware running inferior OS on Macs.
 
Old 06-14-2010, 09:15 AM   #152
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I think the problem with comparing these two results are quite simple.

There are about 11 Windows PC's to every mac PC running on the net today. That said, most people who game will go for a Windows machine because it is a lot simplier and didn't used to play Windows games before Source for mac. So already there will be a huge amount more PC users than mac users.

And we all know how averages work, if your taking down the specs of every computer it is taking the low end ones as well as the high end ones.

And do averages matter that much anyway? Since this has turned into simply a flame war? We all know that Windows PCs have the potential to run better.

Not to mention all the people that probably have accounts that play on laptops and use Steam to get cheap Popcap games or something.

Think about statistics and what they actually mean yeah.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:44 AM   #153
voidpointer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09rmbrown View Post
Facts are facts, and if you look at the hardware Survey, Mac's have
1. More Ram on average 4 GB > 2GB
2. On average we have more microphones (lol)
3. Majority of mac users are on a 64 bit 2009 operating system, instead of a 2001 32 bit one.
4. Both PC and mac have an average connection speed of about 2mb/s, but the PC average % is 28, the mac average is about 50%.
5. More of our users have the average CPU speed of 2.3 - 2.69 Ghz.
Though it is the average for both, we have (again) a higher percentage in that range.



PC Wins
1. Vram, they have an average of 512 over our 256, though as many reports have pointed out, 256 doesn't really start to hurt you until you reach the 1920x1080 range. Otherwise FPS it almost identical. And since the average resolution is 1024x xxxx it doesn't matter either way.
2. Probably other things


So summary, the statistics say that, if you take a random Steam PC and a Random Steam mac, you will have

Mac
-Faster CPU
-More RAM
-Faster Internet Speeds
-A OS that isn't a decade old or 32 bit...
-A microphone
{The survey for mac seems to not have all the things it does for PC (yet)}


PC
-More vram (negligible)
-Windows Xp....lol!
-ummmm add below?

http://cl.ly/e5d6ed1cc0b71d3f7528
http://cl.ly/59e38725e018cf311167

Lets NOT start a PC Mac Rage war

Sorry, but your and similar minded posts confirms my view of not having mac users on steam.

Steam is a GAME platform, not a nerd platform.

And you forgot one important point in your "list of comparsion":

How many games are available to each platform?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:09 PM   #154
typtyphus
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackPot View Post
1. Yeah, HL2 is a 6 (5.5 actually) year old game but if you've cast your mind back several week you'd noticed it got an engine update which added HDR, better textures, and other graphical options. Now, with these, it's more or less makes it a new, modern game in terms of how good a rig you need.

2. So what? 2GB states that it's enough to run it up full and get over 60fps.

3. I have disproved your point. If my old rig with a single core 2.1Ghz cpu can run HL2 better than my laptop(see below for specs), it's clearly proves your theory wrong. Do keep up.





Troll much? Or does your 8000+ posts make you the resident hard guy?



1. It clearly does.

My desktop:

AMD 3500+ @2.1Ghz
2GB DDR RAM
GTS250
XP SP 3


My laptop:

Intel T5750 @2.0Ghz (dual core)
4GB DDR2 RAM
Ati 3470
Win 7 x64

My desktop, with far less powerful CPU and RAM gets a better FPS rate than my laptop which has a dual core CPU and 2x more RAM at faster speeds. So that means the GPU are what matter most.

Now is that clear enough or is your vanity still going to prevail for your next comeback?

2. Also, you're the one calling me a fool two posts ago. Good game on becoming a hypocrite.

I'd say someone went for the troll-bait.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:09 PM   #155
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People are really missing the point. A pretty simple point, at that...
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:24 PM   #156
09rmbrown
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidpointer View Post
Sorry, but your and similar minded posts confirms my view of not having mac users on steam.

Steam is a GAME platform, not a nerd platform.

And you forgot one important point in your "list of comparsion":

How many games are available to each platform?
Fool, just like the majority of Mac Steam users, I have been using Steam for quite a while via Bootcamp or a Windows PC. 2006 was when I started my account.

Just because I can run Steam natively now on osx, doesn't mean I am new around here, like the majority of mac users.

So your "view" is way off. we have been battling beside you for years, now we just use a different os.

The amount of games changes weekly, so that question os something that lasts for a moment in time.

But the number is somewhere around 150 I believe.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:19 PM   #157
Mangr0v3
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackPot View Post
1. Yeah, HL2 is a 6 (5.5 actually) year old game but if you've cast your mind back several week you'd noticed it got an engine update which added HDR, better textures, and other graphical options. Now, with these, it's more or less makes it a new, modern game in terms of how good a rig you need.
No it doesn't. The engine update brings it forward a little bit, however Source lags behind the more modern, intensive engines such as CryEngine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackPot View Post
2. So what? 2GB states that it's enough to run it up full and get over 60fps.
Sure, but 8GB wouldn't make a difference over 2GB, and on that system it probably doesn't make any difference over 1GB either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackPot View Post
3. I have disproved your point. If my old rig with a single core 2.1Ghz cpu can run HL2 better than my laptop(see below for specs), it's clearly proves your theory wrong. Do keep up.
...

My desktop:

AMD 3500+ @2.1Ghz
2GB DDR RAM
GTS250
XP SP 3


My laptop:

Intel T5750 @2.0Ghz (dual core)
4GB DDR2 RAM
Ati 3470
Win 7 x64

My desktop, with far less powerful CPU and RAM gets a better FPS rate than my laptop which has a dual core CPU and 2x more RAM at faster speeds. So that means the GPU are what matter most.
You can't do a raw hardware comparison with different operating systems, let alone different architectures. Anyone who did year-7 science (at least under the NSW curriculum when I did it) would know that in any given experiment, the only variable(s) should be what you're testing, and everything else should remain constant.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:21 PM   #158
QuackPot
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangr0v3 View Post
No it doesn't. The engine update brings it forward a little bit, however Source lags behind the more modern, intensive engines such as CryEngine.

Sure, but 8GB wouldn't make a difference over 2GB, and on that system it probably doesn't make any difference over 1GB either.

You can't do a raw hardware comparison with different operating systems, let alone different architectures. Anyone who did year-7 science (at least under the NSW curriculum when I did it) would know that in any given experiment, the only variable(s) should be what you're testing, and everything else should remain constant.
Point remains. For me, better GPUs make HL2 run better and at higher settings.

/discussion.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:45 PM   #159
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Lets finish this...

I use both macs and pc's i understand that pc's for whatever reason have slightly better benchmarks. Macs have a much better operating system and are much higher quality. For example the macbook pros, iMacs, and Mac pros all have very nice aluminum cases. The macbook's have the best trackpads that i have ever used and multitouch on the trackpad(very useful finger gestures. I also have several friends who were part of your closed minded PC group...then they bought a mac and love them. Owning and using a mac are very different because of how customizable each one is. I hate using other peoples macs because they are configured differently but mine works best for me and is amazing. So, no saying i have used one and couldn't find anything and i hate it and blah blah blah. ok spec time .

Show me PCs that match up with these for less and we will talk. also what might be the base standard specs on it and how much optional do u have to add? not to mension, add in construction(because the aluminum macbooks are amazing.), quality, and warranty please.

desktops are always more powerful...so keep the comparing of PC laptops to mac laptops, and PC desktops to mac desktop...as soon as you change platform type for comparison its not fair. YES, you do that. Those PC enthusiast who see nothing else than that the PC is better!!! No desktop to laptop comparison...

Macbook's:
These are the laptops so compare with laptops please...Tired of close minded PC users comparing weird and bullting info to make their PCs look perfect in every aspect.

Processor: i5 2.4 GHZ standard and optional i7 2.66 GHZ processor.

Gcards: 330M with 256mb vram standard with an intel HD graphics as well(power save gcard basically) this is the one that shares the 256mb vram/the 330m is dedicated. also the i7 versions have 512 dedicated for the 330M
-intel card switches automatically.

RAM: 4GB DDR3 1066MHz standard/up to 8GB supported.

HDD: both solid state drives and normal drives available...someone was yellign that macs don't have SSD's earlier on(what an idiot...please get you facts straight)

Wireless N cards standard/bluetooth/Gigabit ethernet

amazing speakers for a laptop.

and to boot a 9 hour battery life...show me a PC laptop with that standard please.

base price: $1199
__________________________________________
ok iMac:
- these are base entry level macs
base Gcards: 9400M's with 256 vram
best Gcards: ATI Radeon HD 4850 512 MB vram

Processor: base: 3.33 intel core 2 duo for les than 27 inch models
better: 27 inch models come with i5 standard thats 2.66 GHz and turbo boost to 3.2 GHz/optional i7 at 2.8 GHz and boost to 3.42 GHz with HT and 8 virtual cores.

RAM: 4GB 1066MHz starnard/16GB supported.

wireless N/bluetooth/Gigabit ethernet

built in speakers.

also these are very tidy and compact.
base price: 1199
_______________________________________
Mac Pro:
High end computer from apple expensive. These are used for graphic design and stuff, they have a lot of processing power and graphic power but not exactly practical for gaming. check specs on apple.com.
take note. these come standard with 2 quad core intel xeon processors right now.

yes macs are pricey but if u want a cheap one check out the mac mini...core 2 duo with a 9400M and 2GB ram for 600 dollars...not bad, and its this tiny little cube of a thing, its smaller than a wii common size and power for $600? what better than that?).

check this out at apple.com and don't be the people where you hate macs so much you will never go there. look around check out standard specs get info right then rage for all i care...but i hate people with wrong info.

o ya forgot to add...after 60 FPS does it really matter? So far what i have heard that the human brain only takes stuff in at like 30 FPS and if it runs smooth i'm happy. I just like macs more because of the more stable OS and they are just easier to navigate around on.

Last edited by Crunchy005: 06-14-2010 at 07:10 PM.
 
Old 06-14-2010, 06:57 PM   #160
Mangr0v3
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchy005 View Post
<snip>
Base Macbook and Macbook Pro is Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, NVIDIA GT320M.
Base 27" iMac has a 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo.
Base Mac Pro comes with one quad-core Xeon.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:01 PM   #161
Crunchy005
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petchyy View Post
I think the problem with comparing these two results are quite simple.

There are about 11 Windows PC's to every mac PC running on the net today. That said, most people who game will go for a Windows machine because it is a lot simplier and didn't used to play Windows games before Source for mac. So already there will be a huge amount more PC users than mac users.

And we all know how averages work, if your taking down the specs of every computer it is taking the low end ones as well as the high end ones.

And do averages matter that much anyway? Since this has turned into simply a flame war? We all know that Windows PCs have the potential to run better.

Not to mention all the people that probably have accounts that play on laptops and use Steam to get cheap Popcap games or something.

Think about statistics and what they actually mean yeah.
now i believe you have a problem here...your stating that this is just a flame war but you just said flat out that Windows have the potential to run better? Just because windows has a bigger gaming comunity doesn't mean they run better. In my experience windows are full of errors and a crappy OS. Yes they might get a better benchmark, but what good is that when the game doesn't run. Also macs are big in the graphic design industry. They are great if not better than windows at those heavy number crunching and graphic intense applications. I mean photoshop has always run better for me on a mac than on a similar hardware Windows. Next to that the GUI is better on the mac as well.
 
Old 06-14-2010, 07:06 PM   #162
Crunchy005
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangr0v3 View Post
Base Macbook and Macbook Pro is Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, NVIDIA GT320M.
Base 27" iMac has a 3.06GHz Core 2 Duo.
Base Mac Pro comes with one quad-core Xeon.
thats my bad on the 27"(double checked after post :P) o and mac pro wow thought they had updated that hmmm ok ok i made a few mistakes but still was close, wrote it in a hurry:P sorry. The 13" macbook is the only one that has the 320M and core 2 duo all the others have a base of the i5. depends on the model.
 
Old 06-14-2010, 07:23 PM   #163
Mangr0v3
 
 
 
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13" Macbook and Macbook Pro have the Core 2, 15" and 17" have i5/i7
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:27 PM   #164
Crunchy005
 
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exactly thats what i said
 
Old 06-14-2010, 07:31 PM   #165
Cronq
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunchy005 View Post
Show me PCs that match up with these for less and we will talk.

Processor: i5 2.4 GHZ standard and optional i7 2.66 GHZ processor.

Gcards: 330M with 256mb vram standard with an intel HD graphics as well(power save gcard basically) this is the one that shares the 256mb vram/the 330m is dedicated. also the i7 versions have 512 dedicated for the 330M
-intel card switches automatically.

RAM: 4GB DDR3 1066MHz standard/up to 8GB supported.

HDD: both solid state drives and normal drives available...someone was yellign that macs don't have SSD's earlier on(what an idiot...please get you facts straight)

Wireless N cards standard/bluetooth/Gigabit ethernet

amazing speakers for a laptop.

and to boot a 9 hour battery life...show me a PC laptop with that standard please.

base price: $1199
Asus G73JH RBBX05
Intel Core i7 720QM
8GB DDR3 RAM
500GB 7200 RPM HDD (Can hold 2 HDD)
ATI 5870 1GB GDDR5 (Most powerful Mobile GPU available)
Windows 7 64-bit
17.3" 1600x900 LED LCD

Same base price. Can I have a cookie?
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