Survivor Mode... Umm... Are You Kidding Me?

ParGellen · 06-13-2010, 05:06 PM

I played the campaign and loved it! So I figured I'd try some survivor mode maps. They are all a blast up until exactly 17 minutes at which point the critters almost stop taking damage even from lines of fully upgraded turrets.

I'm confused. Shouldn't the difficulty slowly increase for fun's sake and not suddenly become a giant brick wall that has "YOU ARE DONE PLAYING NOW, GO AWAY!" written across it?

Don't get me wrong. I love this game but that seems like a silly design to me

deanjones145 · 06-14-2010, 05:33 AM

the 17-18 mark is a tough mark to beat to get the medals at first
whats the char and set up ur using

try using a missle laser combo char
like brenford
missles for AOE
laser to pick off bosses and air
lightning (level 1) to stun
goo/turbs or emp to slow
can also use isksa
u need level 3 missles and laser by then
and use support
like fear etc to keep them in area of attack

ParGellen · 06-14-2010, 09:30 AM

I've tried virtually everything I can think of including what you suggested. The problem is when the creeps suddenly become nigh invincible and just walk past my level 3 turrets and support drops as if they are a minor irritation. The only time I got past 20 minutes was with Gus using pillboxes and flaks. The pillboxes hit very hard and don't waste time aiming. Even then though the next wave just walked past like I wasn't even trying. My next best was with Freya (18 minutes) on cwm using nothing but drones (again very hard hitting with no/little aim time). Everything else I tried was like a bad joke when the bosses showed up.

This feels broken to me... It's like "fun fun fun dead... wtf?"

DocturDread · 06-14-2010, 04:44 PM

It may seem challenging and it is, but its the only thing that keeps me playing this game. I've tried the first survival map probably a few hundred times and my best is about 35 minutes. Strangely most times I only last 22-25 minutes. Seems you can get lucky sometimes and it staggers the big bosses out better but all in all you need a near perfect strategy to get very far on some maps. Depending on the officer and map you may need to be blasting away the entire path of the enemies or other times you can get away with going all out in the best strategic location on the map.

ParGellen · 06-14-2010, 09:29 PM

How are some people on the global leaderboards getting over an hour?

Seriously though, you guys (devs, whoever) don't think it would be more fun for it to gradually become harder over time rather than suddenly you just lose because it's time for you to lose?

I see it like this: I'd feel much better about playing for hours and losing because I was overrun and couldn't keep up rather than just because some dev decided that I should play for 20 minutes and then go away... Actually that kind of makes me a little angry lol! It makes me not want to play at all because it doesn't really feel like I'm playing the game as much as I'm just waiting for the brick wall timer to expire.

ColdEquation · 06-14-2010, 09:46 PM

The intention was *not* to have an impossible wall at a specific time. Depending on your style of play, it can feel rather gradual.

If you are doing your best with Gus, it sounds like you aren't taking advantage of slowing towers with other officers. Try placing spaced out slow goo turrets, upgraded to level 3. That will help prevent the situation from becoming dire so quickly once the creep strength surpasses your damage output.

And if you were not aware, the desert level is quite a bit more difficult than the others. The fight is more manageable on the volcanic level, where all paths come together into one.

deanjones145 · 06-14-2010, 10:23 PM

yeah try the volcano level
try with isksa

where they join
build missle towers there (spam them)
EMP to slow all over the place
lightning all ver the place to stun (need only level 1's)
and lasers in the curve to attack bosses

DocturDread · 06-15-2010, 07:11 AM

Focus fire on the bosses! Without focus fire you are surely dead!

ParGellen · 06-15-2010, 07:50 AM

I guess I'm just unable to do it. Goo towers, focus fire, missiles, emp, different maps, wife wondering why I'm cursing so loudly from the back room, none of it makes any difference

When the bosses show up it's simply game over. If not on the first wave then definitely on the next.

I even found a screenshot (may have been photo-shopped but at this point I don't care) of where a guy played for over 50 minutes and tried to mimic his setup but I couldn't even do that. I didn't even come close...

ColdEquation, if your intention was to avoid a brick wall then why do all the bosses land at once and overwhelm you? The key is to have a gradual increase in strength, not a sudden huge virtually invincible wave that tramples everything and leaves you feeling cheated. That's no fun...

I loved the campaign. It is well balanced on the harder settings and the survival mode is terrific up until the boss wall. If the survival mode played more like the campaign but simply went on until you died I'd be one hell of a happy camper. Unfortunately it doesn't

I guess I'm back to playing VectorTD (free flash game) and Defense Grid (another very fun tower defense game here on Steam for those that didn't know) for my tower fix. Hopefully you guys might patch it or add another mode for us slow old guys that like to play until we die rather than for a set time period. I'll keep an eye open here and pray for an add-on or something that addresses this issue (I'd definitely buy it) but for now I'm done with the frustration. Games aren't supposed to make you angry lol!

Thanks for the great game! I just wish I could play it...

DocturDread · 06-15-2010, 11:46 AM

LoL. It takes a lot of practice and trying lots of different things. I am so grateful that someone actually made a challenging tower defense game unlike virtually everything else out there that is all dumbed down for the masses and casual gamers. Its the reason this game has been played by me for almost 200 hours!

I only wish there were more than 5 survival maps. A map editor or expansion pack is needed desperately!

deanjones145 · 06-15-2010, 05:20 PM

try playing mutliplayer
u can see otehr setups

"Goo towers, focus fire, missiles, emp, different maps, "
wat ur missing is someting to attack strong single bosses
missles wont cut it
u need lasers

try volanco
brenford
missles/goo/lasers
goo to slow all over the place
and u need level 3 goos
missles near the front of the circle to kill packs of monsters
laser near the end of the cirle to kill bosses

06-18-2010, 02:08 AM

It took me ages to get passed the 17 minute mark & I did feel as frustruated as you sound. But I eventually got there & now I can last about 30 - 40 mins on most maps.

cydereal · 06-18-2010, 01:34 PM

I think of survival as Sol Survivor's "End Game." This is supposed to be hard so that the best players have something to strive for. There are at least a half dozen viable strategies I've used for getting past the "boss wall," and survival is more about flexing your mental muscles more than repeating old strategies.

ParGellen · 06-19-2010, 07:20 PM

Interesting. Not much help but interesting.

cydereal,
I have no problem with a tough "end game" as you put it. However, deliberately creating a game that slowly becomes increasingly difficult and loads of fun for 17 minutes then suddenly impossible for 99% of the player base is (to put it mildly) more than slightly dumb. Create impossible scenarios for the uber leet omgpwners all you want but at least give the rest of us idiots (yeah that's what I'm getting) something to do.

Here's an idea (gasp!). How about a difficulty selector for the survival maps. You can even name them "Mommy's Little Boy" "Loser Newb" "Nerd" "Regular Guy" "Brainiac" "Uber Leet" and "Dev" if it makes you feel better about yourselves. I gather from your out of hand dismissals of my feedback ("Oh just try harder." "Stop sucking and be leet like me.") and apparent assumption that I'm a mentally handicapped chimpanzee you guys seem to need that...

I just want to play a fun game. I have no interest in flexing and comparing epeens with anyone.

06-22-2010, 05:49 AM

I've been stonewalling at about 1:03, seems I cant get the 1-hour boss wave to drop health fast enough even with a field of lasers or missiles.

http://nsbadclan.org/see.jpg
http://nsbadclan.org/see_45.jpg
http://nsbadclan.org/see_1h.jpg
http://nsbadclan.org/see_103.jpg

/edit added the other on-the-way shots.

06-13-2010, 05:06 PM	#1
ParGellen Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 39	Survivor Mode... Umm... Are You Kidding Me? I played the campaign and loved it! So I figured I'd try some survivor mode maps. They are all a blast up until exactly 17 minutes at which point the critters almost stop taking damage even from lines of fully upgraded turrets. I'm confused. Shouldn't the difficulty slowly increase for fun's sake and not suddenly become a giant brick wall that has "YOU ARE DONE PLAYING NOW, GO AWAY!" written across it? Don't get me wrong. I love this game but that seems like a silly design to me

06-14-2010, 09:30 AM	#3
ParGellen Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 39	I've tried virtually everything I can think of including what you suggested. The problem is when the creeps suddenly become nigh invincible and just walk past my level 3 turrets and support drops as if they are a minor irritation. The only time I got past 20 minutes was with Gus using pillboxes and flaks. The pillboxes hit very hard and don't waste time aiming. Even then though the next wave just walked past like I wasn't even trying. My next best was with Freya (18 minutes) on cwm using nothing but drones (again very hard hitting with no/little aim time). Everything else I tried was like a bad joke when the bosses showed up. This feels broken to me... It's like "fun fun fun dead... wtf?" Last edited by ParGellen: 06-14-2010 at 09:36 AM.

06-14-2010, 09:29 PM	#5
ParGellen Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 39	How are some people on the global leaderboards getting over an hour? Seriously though, you guys (devs, whoever) don't think it would be more fun for it to gradually become harder over time rather than suddenly you just lose because it's time for you to lose? I see it like this: I'd feel much better about playing for hours and losing because I was overrun and couldn't keep up rather than just because some dev decided that I should play for 20 minutes and then go away... Actually that kind of makes me a little angry lol! It makes me not want to play at all because it doesn't really feel like I'm playing the game as much as I'm just waiting for the brick wall timer to expire. Last edited by ParGellen: 06-14-2010 at 09:39 PM.

06-19-2010, 07:20 PM	#14
ParGellen Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 39	Interesting. Not much help but interesting. cydereal, I have no problem with a tough "end game" as you put it. However, deliberately creating a game that slowly becomes increasingly difficult and loads of fun for 17 minutes then suddenly impossible for 99% of the player base is (to put it mildly) more than slightly dumb. Create impossible scenarios for the uber leet omgpwners all you want but at least give the rest of us idiots (yeah that's what I'm getting) something to do. Here's an idea (gasp!). How about a difficulty selector for the survival maps. You can even name them "Mommy's Little Boy" "Loser Newb" "Nerd" "Regular Guy" "Brainiac" "Uber Leet" and "Dev" if it makes you feel better about yourselves. I gather from your out of hand dismissals of my feedback ("Oh just try harder." "Stop sucking and be leet like me.") and apparent assumption that I'm a mentally handicapped chimpanzee you guys seem to need that... I just want to play a fun game. I have no interest in flexing and comparing epeens with anyone. Last edited by ParGellen: 06-20-2010 at 08:02 AM.

06-22-2010, 05:49 AM	#15
shentrax Guest Posts: n/a	I've been stonewalling at about 1:03, seems I cant get the 1-hour boss wave to drop health fast enough even with a field of lasers or missiles. http://nsbadclan.org/see.jpg http://nsbadclan.org/see_45.jpg http://nsbadclan.org/see_1h.jpg http://nsbadclan.org/see_103.jpg /edit added the other on-the-way shots. Last edited by shentrax: 06-22-2010 at 05:52 AM.

06-14-2010, 05:33 AM	#2
deanjones145 Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 113	the 17-18 mark is a tough mark to beat to get the medals at first whats the char and set up ur using try using a missle laser combo char like brenford missles for AOE laser to pick off bosses and air lightning (level 1) to stun goo/turbs or emp to slow can also use isksa u need level 3 missles and laser by then and use support like fear etc to keep them in area of attack

06-14-2010, 04:44 PM	#4
DocturDread Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 96	It may seem challenging and it is, but its the only thing that keeps me playing this game. I've tried the first survival map probably a few hundred times and my best is about 35 minutes. Strangely most times I only last 22-25 minutes. Seems you can get lucky sometimes and it staggers the big bosses out better but all in all you need a near perfect strategy to get very far on some maps. Depending on the officer and map you may need to be blasting away the entire path of the enemies or other times you can get away with going all out in the best strategic location on the map.

06-14-2010, 09:46 PM	#6
ColdEquation Cadenza Interactive Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 24 Posts: 179	The intention was not to have an impossible wall at a specific time. Depending on your style of play, it can feel rather gradual. If you are doing your best with Gus, it sounds like you aren't taking advantage of slowing towers with other officers. Try placing spaced out slow goo turrets, upgraded to level 3. That will help prevent the situation from becoming dire so quickly once the creep strength surpasses your damage output. And if you were not aware, the desert level is quite a bit more difficult than the others. The fight is more manageable on the volcanic level, where all paths come together into one.

06-14-2010, 10:23 PM	#7
deanjones145 Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 113	yeah try the volcano level try with isksa where they join build missle towers there (spam them) EMP to slow all over the place lightning all ver the place to stun (need only level 1's) and lasers in the curve to attack bosses

06-15-2010, 07:11 AM	#8
DocturDread Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 96	Focus fire on the bosses! Without focus fire you are surely dead!

06-15-2010, 07:50 AM	#9
ParGellen Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 39	I guess I'm just unable to do it. Goo towers, focus fire, missiles, emp, different maps, wife wondering why I'm cursing so loudly from the back room, none of it makes any difference When the bosses show up it's simply game over. If not on the first wave then definitely on the next. I even found a screenshot (may have been photo-shopped but at this point I don't care) of where a guy played for over 50 minutes and tried to mimic his setup but I couldn't even do that. I didn't even come close... ColdEquation, if your intention was to avoid a brick wall then why do all the bosses land at once and overwhelm you? The key is to have a gradual increase in strength, not a sudden huge virtually invincible wave that tramples everything and leaves you feeling cheated. That's no fun... I loved the campaign. It is well balanced on the harder settings and the survival mode is terrific up until the boss wall. If the survival mode played more like the campaign but simply went on until you died I'd be one hell of a happy camper. Unfortunately it doesn't I guess I'm back to playing VectorTD (free flash game) and Defense Grid (another very fun tower defense game here on Steam for those that didn't know) for my tower fix. Hopefully you guys might patch it or add another mode for us slow old guys that like to play until we die rather than for a set time period. I'll keep an eye open here and pray for an add-on or something that addresses this issue (I'd definitely buy it) but for now I'm done with the frustration. Games aren't supposed to make you angry lol! Thanks for the great game! I just wish I could play it...

06-15-2010, 11:46 AM	#10
DocturDread Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 1 Posts: 96	LoL. It takes a lot of practice and trying lots of different things. I am so grateful that someone actually made a challenging tower defense game unlike virtually everything else out there that is all dumbed down for the masses and casual gamers. Its the reason this game has been played by me for almost 200 hours! I only wish there were more than 5 survival maps. A map editor or expansion pack is needed desperately!

06-15-2010, 05:20 PM	#11
deanjones145 Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 113	try playing mutliplayer u can see otehr setups "Goo towers, focus fire, missiles, emp, different maps, " wat ur missing is someting to attack strong single bosses missles wont cut it u need lasers try volanco brenford missles/goo/lasers goo to slow all over the place and u need level 3 goos missles near the front of the circle to kill packs of monsters laser near the end of the cirle to kill bosses

06-18-2010, 02:08 AM	#12
treefingers Guest Posts: n/a	It took me ages to get passed the 17 minute mark & I did feel as frustruated as you sound. But I eventually got there & now I can last about 30 - 40 mins on most maps.

06-18-2010, 01:34 PM	#13
cydereal Cadenza Interactive Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 58 Posts: 240	I think of survival as Sol Survivor's "End Game." This is supposed to be hard so that the best players have something to strive for. There are at least a half dozen viable strategies I've used for getting past the "boss wall," and survival is more about flexing your mental muscles more than repeating old strategies.

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