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Old 07-19-2010, 04:17 PM   #1
Echo
 
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Gameplay and gun speeds update

This is a longish post, so only read the first paragraph if you don't care about the details.

With an upcoming update, the speeds of the various weapons will be adjusted to match the rate of old 100 tick servers.

There was a long-standing bug in CS with how the weapon firing rate was calculated. Imagine that the AK fired 6 bullets a second (166ms), and the server updated at 10 frames a second.

Server update 0: 0 ms Firing timer: 0 ms
Server update 1: 100 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 2: 200 ms Firing timer: 200 ms => *FIRE* => 0 ms
Server update 3: 300 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 4: 400 ms Firing timer: 200 ms => *FIRE* => 0 ms
Server update 5: 500 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 6: 600 ms Firing timer: 200 ms => *FIRE* => 0 ms
Server update 7: 700 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 8: 800 ms Firing timer: 200 ms => *FIRE* => 0 ms
Server update 9: 900 ms Firing timer: 100 ms

As you can see, 33ms of firing time is lost each time the gun fires- it's effectively shooting slower (only 5 hits / second) because of the tick rate of the server. If the server was bogged down or had lot of people on it, the results would be even more unpredictable.

This is why guns operated very differently at different tick rates.

We've updated it to the correct behavior, in which case you'll get:
Server update 0: 0 ms Firing timer: 0 ms
Server update 1: 100 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 2: 200 ms Firing timer: 200 ms *FIRE* => 33 ms
Server update 3: 300 ms Firing timer: 133 ms
Server update 4: 400 ms Firing timer: 233 ms *FIRE* => 66 ms
Server update 5: 500 ms Firing timer: 166 ms *FIRE* => 0 ms
Server update 6: 600 ms Firing timer: 100 ms
Server update 7: 700 ms Firing timer: 200 ms *FIRE* => 33 ms
Server update 8: 800 ms Firing timer: 133 ms
Server update 9: 900 ms Firing timer: 233 ms *FIRE* => 66ms

This fixes the integration, and regardless of tick rate, the guns will have the same feel. In practice, this made the difference between 8 (33 tick), 9 (66 tick), and 10 (100 tick) bullets per second on the AK. Now they should all be identical.

In order to preserve game play, we timed the guns and dumped out the delta between shots on the old 100 tick servers and the new servers. Every automatic weapon was tested, and then we modified the weapon data to match the old 100 tick results.

After making the changes, we ran through and verified that the firing rate was the same for all automatic guns as it was on 100 tick server before the update.

The final cycle times (in seconds) are given below:

SMGs
MAC-10: 0.075
MP5: 0.08
KM UMP45: 0.105
TMP: 0.07
C90: 0.07

Rifles
AK47: 0.1
Galil: 0.09
552: 0.09
D3/AU-1: 0.25
Scout: 1.25
AWP: 1.455
550: 0.25
Bullpup: 0.09
M4A1: 0.09
Famas: 0.09

Shotguns
M3: 0.88
XM1014: 0.25

Machineguns
M249: 0.08

With this update, all of them should feel like old 100 tick servers.

We also plan on looking at weapon recoil and spread patterns and fixing the integration problems there, as well, but that will be in a later update.

Thanks!

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Last edited by Echo: 07-19-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:19 PM   #2
Echo
 
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reserved

reserved for more information later

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Old 07-19-2010, 04:30 PM   #3
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Yeay.! =D
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
hisham.albeik
 
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Thanks for the details and the heads-up. Looking forward for field testing.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:44 PM   #5
Simps
 
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Looks good on a forum thread but remember that guns recoil / spray pattern / speed, is probably the most important thing in the game. If you are going to mess with that, please review it 1000 times before releasing the update. If you mess up with those things, the game will be ruined, and the flood in this forum will be insane.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:54 PM   #6
Echo
 
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Originally Posted by Simps View Post
Looks good on a forum thread but remember that guns recoil / spray pattern / speed, is probably the most important thing in the game. If you are going to mess with that, please review it 1000 times before releasing the update. If you mess up with those things, the game will be ruined, and the flood in this forum will be insane.
Yeah- that's why the plan is to get it back where it was.

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Old 07-19-2010, 05:02 PM   #7
MAJKL
 
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Well, I just hope someone from HP will read this

Please just have in mind that this slower behaviour pretty much killed the game for people with zero aim who just run in WASDA madness and still got their frags, game actually became more skillwise. Also the deagle inconsistency was good (in old css it was no problem to win a round with 5 deagles against full buy)

Echo, can you please revise and reconsider really everything and maybe implement some smaller changes to maintain this gameplay based on skill and aim? Not all things were THAT bad . Maybe take a look to 1.6 a little bit, current version of CS:S was never closer to this game and it was great fun to play it .

Quick edit: Great work anyways, finally someone cares

Last edited by MAJKL: 07-19-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:05 PM   #8
hl2_exe
 
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I like it better with more skill now too.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:23 PM   #9
rwj
 
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I somewhat agree with majkl, although i'd like to see the guns behave the same as they did before the update, a severe accuracy penalty while moving should be introduced to source, in 1.6 it is 10 times harder to get a kill while strafing than it is in cs:source.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:40 PM   #10
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#9 has it
more movement penalty
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:41 PM   #11
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This is getting better and better each week. Thank you very much for addressing these issues Hidden Path.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hl2_exe View Post
#9 has it
more movement penalty
But maybe not that major like in 1.6 because it would annoy pure public players.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:45 PM   #13
hl2_exe
 
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they can still spray with the famas and galil
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:49 PM   #14
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Awesome news Echo, keep up the good work!
Was this update just issued? Because I just downloaded 22.6MB of CS:S but there's no news on it. o.O
And your post says "upcoming update" so I don't know if that is this or not.
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Old 07-19-2010, 05:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undead View Post
Awesome news Echo, keep up the good work!
Was this update just issued? Because I just downloaded 22.6MB of CS:S but there's no news on it. o.O
And your post says "upcoming update" so I don't know if that is this or not.
That's weird.. there is a TF2 update just released
http://store.steampowered.com/news/4093/

but there is nothing indicating and engine change, or any changes that is used by CS:S. Maybe if you don't have TF2 installed, it'll get kicked to CS:S, since there are shared files.

Edit: Could be this? http://store.steampowered.com/news/4090/ "updates to the source engine as well as the SDK"
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