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Old 07-21-2010, 07:10 PM   #1
Jezuz
 
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PhysX = No buy. Period.

The decision to use PhysX in this game is absurd. What they are doing is alienating roughly half of the market (perhaps more, perhaps less) and saying that our 200-500 dollar card isn't good enough because of a corporate deal. The PC market has, for a very long time, been something that is universal. There's differences in performances, and there's differences in opinion about which performance is best between the two 'big ones', but in the end your high end card will play that high end game.

With the inclusion of PhysX, Mafia 2 is attempting to set a precedent where PC gamers are forced to own a certain brand of card in order to fully experience the game. This is the worst kind of partisanship, and something that even nVidia users should see the harm in. What if, suddenly, there is a one card market due to software that is locked to only that card manufacturer? You'll have gouged prices, destruction of flexibility and competition within the market, and overall consumer (that be us) dissatisfaction. Or, what if ATI makes their own software exclusive to their cards? You then have division within the (already incredibly small) PC gaming community, Hammer Legion Memberism rampant throughout PC boards (that be here), and helpful comments regarding what card to buy turning into a haven for flamers and consumers to defend their card with infuriated passion.

In the end, this sort of behavior by both nVidia and the developers/publishers of Mafia 2 set a dangerous precedent that only spells disaster for the consumer. So, come late August, I'll be down a game to play. I will not purchase this game until it's on the used rack at GameStop, where I will give absolutely no cash to the developer, and certainly no business to Steam who will be selling this corporate made mess. Good luck to you all.
 
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:13 PM   #2
hlhbk
 
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Um you do know that you can have your primary card be an ATI card (I own a 5850), and have a secondary Nvidia card dedicated to Physx (I use a 8600 GT) right? There will always be hacks to get around these limitations so I don't see the issue.

Oh and by the way the Physx content added to Mirror's Edge and Batman Arkham Asylum was awesome!

Last edited by hlhbk: 07-21-2010 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:18 PM   #3
Jezuz
 
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Um you do know that you can have your primary card be an ATI card (I own a 5850), and have a secondary Nvidia card dedicated to Physx (I use a 8600 GT) right?
So you're saying it's fine that you need to run two cards constantly within a computer in order to get proper performance out of certain games? Ludicrous. This increases heat within the case, decreases space for air movement, and in turn increases how quickly your computer will degrade. What about SLI, as well? Are we supposed to give that up to run PhysX? Are we supposed to cough up another 100-200 dollars just to run this game? Again, it's a ridiculous notion to be forced to use two cards for this software.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:22 PM   #4
lucky644
 
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My card does physx, no need for a second card...maybe you should upgrade?
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:25 PM   #5
Jezuz
 
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My card does physx, no need for a second card...maybe you should upgrade?
Exact kind of attitude that is both insulting and snarky that comes from software like PhysX.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:26 PM   #6
lucky644
 
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Exact kind of attitude that is both insulting and snarky that comes from software like PhysX.
Well, how old is your card?
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:28 PM   #7
wazups 2x
 
 
 
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Well, how old is your card?
Uh, ATI cards don't support PhysX no matter how new the card is.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:30 PM   #8
lucky644
 
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Uh, ATI cards don't support PhysX no matter how new the card is.
I assumed he had a Nvidia card, I don't think he said what brand he actually owns.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:37 PM   #9
Jezuz
 
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I assumed he had a Nvidia card, I don't think he said what brand he actually owns.
ATI 4890. I also own an 8800 sitting next to me that isn't in a computer. My card is barely a year old, and can run everything that I throw at it at max.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:39 PM   #10
lucky644
 
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ATI 4890. I also own an 8800 sitting next to me that isn't in a computer. My card is barely a year old, and can run everything that I throw at it at max.
You don't think mafia 2 will still look good on it?
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:39 PM   #11
ImBack87
 
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Unfortunately for you, you voice will not be heard as I've been spending some time over at Mafia II official forums and I have yet to see someone say that they won't buy the game for the reasons you mentioned. Even among ATI users there aren't many people who care about this kind of thing. I'm a Nvidia user myself but I do agree with you that this kind of business strategy gives PC gaming a bad name and if I was an ATI user I'd be a little upset over not being able to fully experience Mafia II, I would still buy it though.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:40 PM   #12
Cream Soda
 
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Maybe instead of looking at PhysX being a bad thing, you look at your video card's inability to process physics as a bad thing. PhysX is middleware anyway, not hardware. The only thing that makes it nvidia-only is because the physx libraries interface with the CUDA stream processors. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that in the past 2-3 years, nobody has created a wrapper for the physx libraries to work with ATI's "firestream" stream processors. Perhaps you could try googling that instead of denouncing innovation.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:44 PM   #13
hlhbk
 
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Originally Posted by Jezuz View Post
So you're saying it's fine that you need to run two cards constantly within a computer in order to get proper performance out of certain games? Ludicrous. This increases heat within the case, decreases space for air movement, and in turn increases how quickly your computer will degrade. What about SLI, as well? Are we supposed to give that up to run PhysX? Are we supposed to cough up another 100-200 dollars just to run this game? Again, it's a ridiculous notion to be forced to use two cards for this software.
Dude if you want standarized performance/features across all hardware I suggest you leave the PC market and go to the consoles. Your exact same arugments were made when dedicated video card because mainstream in the late 90's.

People were saying why should they have to upgrade to a device that costs $200 more (at the time), and how it would hurt PC gaming. I suggest if you have a problem with it you deal with it.

The kind of aphmosphere it brought to Batman Arkham Asylum compared to the console and vanilla PC version was amazing. In the end if you refuse to do what is needed to play the newest features in PC gaming you will be left behind, and you will be the one suffering for not getting the best out of pc games.

Last edited by hlhbk: 07-21-2010 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:55 PM   #14
Jezuz
 
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Originally Posted by ImBack87 View Post
I'm a Nvidia user myself but I do agree with you that this kind of business strategy gives PC gaming a bad name and if I was an ATI user I'd be a little upset over not being able to fully experience Mafia II, I would still buy it though.
I'm sure there is others that feel the way I do. It's not even about the fact that I can't do it: I can if I truly wanted. It's the fact that I'm forced to do it, and so is everyone else here, if they want the full Mafia II experience. Yet consumers seem to not care. We eat it up and just say 'suck it up, this is PC gaming'. It doesn't have to be. It really, truly doesn't, and if we ever want to see our platform survive, it really shouldn't be.

As far as buying it: I definitely will. I just won't give a cent to the developers, the publisher or to Steam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky644 View Post
You don't think mafia 2 will still look good on it?
It should look it's best given the amount of cash ATI users put into their computers. We spend just as much as nVidia users, and should get the same performance out of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlhbk View Post
Dude if you want standarized performance/features across all hardware I suggest you leave the PC market and go to the consoles. Your exact same arugments were made when dedicated video card because mainstream in the late 90's.

People were saying why should they have to upgrade to a device that costs $200 more (at the time), and how it would hurt PC gaming. I suggest if you have a problem with it you deal with it.

The kind of aphmosphere it brought to Batman Arkham Asylum compared to the console and vanilla PC version was amazing.
This isn't a market being formed, it's a monopoly. I'm not complaining because of price or because I need to buy anything, I'm complaining that we have to buy something additional. The 90s were a horrible, horrible time for PC gaming as far as hardware goes. Right now, we're exiting a golden age for hardware and entering an age where nVidia hopes software will rule, backed by their and only their card.

No, I'm not complaining because of progress in an industry. I'm complaining about the beginning of a monopoly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
Maybe instead of looking at PhysX being a bad thing, you look at your video card's inability to process physics as a bad thing. PhysX is middleware anyway, not hardware. The only thing that makes it nvidia-only is because the physx libraries interface with the CUDA stream processors. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that in the past 2-3 years, nobody has created a wrapper for the physx libraries to work with ATI's "firestream" stream processors. Perhaps you could try googling that instead of denouncing innovation.
PhysX is owned and distributed by nVidia. If you want to try to say that ATI could simply make it compatible, you obviously have no idea how business works. Say someone does make PhysX ATI compatible, what do you think will happen to that person should they try to distribute it? Even for free? They'd be sued for damages, and they'd get a court order to stop updating the software. It has nothing to do with innovation: it's all business, and it's all bad.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:11 PM   #15
n050up4u
 
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Originally Posted by Jezuz View Post
So you're saying it's fine that you need to run two cards constantly within a computer in order to get proper performance out of certain games? Ludicrous. This increases heat within the case, decreases space for air movement, and in turn increases how quickly your computer will degrade. What about SLI, as well? Are we supposed to give that up to run PhysX? Are we supposed to cough up another 100-200 dollars just to run this game? Again, it's a ridiculous notion to be forced to use two cards for this software.


Enthusiast settings are for enthusiasts, guy.
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