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Old 11-12-2010, 06:04 AM   #1
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Civ V - Map Size/Game Speed REFERENCE (Mechanic Changes and Map Specifications)

Howdie All

Civilization V, as it stands now, doesn't provide a whole lot of detail on how the game changes between differing MAP SZIES, GAME SPEEDS and DIFFICULTY.

I created these tables to address some of these shortcomings and to assist me in balancing the game across differing MAP SIZE/GAME SPEED combinations using a non-default number of CIVS/CITY-STATES

Essentially I have compiled a list of some of the changes, made to game mechanics, upon changing the MAP SIZE or GAME SPEED including : Research Speed, City Unhappiness, City Policy Penalty, Production Cost, Policy Cost and Game Length.

Addittionaly I have provided a breakdown of MAP SIZE specs, including Height, Width, Area, Default Civs, Default City States, Max City State Tiles, Max Civ Tiles, and Average Number of Cities per Civ.

NOTE : I have not addressed difficulty in this post as I am still gathering data on it.


GAME MECHANIC CHANGES
MAP SIZE DETAILS (Mechanics that vary with Map Size alone)
DUEL
Unhappiness Per City = 2, Extra City Policy Penalty = 30%
TINY
Unhappiness Per City = 2, Extra City Policy Penalty = 30%
SMALL
Unhappiness Per City = 2, Extra City Policy Penalty = 30%
STANDARD
Unhappiness Per City = 2, Extra City Policy Penalty = 30%
LARGE
Unhappiness Per City = 1.6, Extra City Policy Penalty = 20%
HUGE
Unhappiness Per City = 1.2, Extra City Policy Penalty = 15%
GAME SPEED DETAILS (Mechanics that vary with Game Speed alone)
QUICK
Game Length (Turns) = 330, Production Cost (Hammers) = 26, Policy Cost (Culture) = 15
STANDARD
Game Length (Turns) = 500, Production Cost (Hammers) = 40, Policy Cost (Culture) = 25
EPIC
Game Length (Turns) = 750, Production Cost (Hammers) = 60, Policy Cost (Culture) = 35
MARATHON
Game Length (Turns) = 1500, Production Cost (Hammers) = 120, Policy Cost (Culture) = 75
MAP SIZE and GAME SPEED DETAILS (Mechanics that are affected by both variables)

DUEL SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 23
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 35
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 52
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 105

TINY SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 23
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 35
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 52
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 105

SMALL SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 23
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 35
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 52
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 105

STANDARD SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 25
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 38
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 57
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 114

LARGE SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 28
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 42
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 63
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 126

HUGE SIZED MAPS
QUICK
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 30
STANDARD
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 45
EPIC
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 67
MARATHON
Technology Cost (Beakers) = 135
NOTES
UNHAPPINESS PER CITY : The amount of unhappiness acrued by founding a new city.

EXTRA CITY POLICY PENALTY : The Culture Cost each policy is increased by with the fouding of a new city.

PRODUCTION COST : Cost (In Hammers) to produce a WARRIOR. I did not check buildings/wonders, but assume they ustilize the same ratio.

POLICY COST : Cost (In Culture) to produce the 1st policy.

TECHNOLOGY RESEARCH : All figures pertain to the research cost (In Beakers) of aquiring POTTERY. Again I assuming that the ratio holds for all Techs and Eras.

Other mechanics that change but I have not tabulated, include : Gold/Culture from Ruins, Gold from Barbarians, City State Influence degradation/increase, Research Agreement cost, et al.

MAP SIZE SPECIFICATIONS
DUEL SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 40, Height (Tiles) = 24, Area (Tiles) = 960
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 2, Default City States = 4
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 148, Civilization (Tiles) = 406, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 10.97
TINY SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 56, Height (Tiles) = 36, Area (Tiles) =2016
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 4, Default City States = 8
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 296, Civilization (Tiles) = 430, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 11.62
SMALL SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 66, Height (Tiles) = 42, Area (Tiles) =2772
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 6, Default City States = 12
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 444, Civilization (Tiles) = 388, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 10.48
STANDARD SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 80, Height (Tiles) = 52, Area (Tiles) = 4160
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 8, Default City States = 16
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 592, Civilization (Tiles) = 446, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 12.054
LARGE SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 104, Height (Tiles) = 64, Area (Tiles) =6656
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 10, Default City States = 20
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 740, Civilization (Tiles) = 592, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 15.98
HUGE SIZED MAPS
MAP DIMENSIONS
Width (Tiles) = 128, Height (Tiles) = 80, Area (Tiles) =10240
MAP POPULATION
Default Civilizations = 12, Default City States = 24
CALCULATED DETAILS
City State Area (Tiles) = 888, Civilization (Tiles) = 780, Average Settlements per Civilization (Cities) = 21.06
NOTES
CITY STATE TILES : The amount of room (Tiles) taken up by all of the maps City States having expanded to their maximum capacity (37 Tiles).

CIVILIZATION TILES : The amount of room (Tiles) left for a single Civilization, assuming all land is shared equally between all Civilizations and having discounted land taken up by City States.

AVERAGE SETTLEMENTS per CIVLIZATION : Essentially the value of CIVILZATION TILES divided by the maximum size of a single city (37 Tiles).

Obviously these figures are designed to give an IDEA of land availability not try to model each civlizations exact land usage. Obviously not all Civilizations will expand the same amout, and not all Cities will grow to encompass 37 Tiles. Use the values to compare different MAP SIZES.

I am not aware yet as to how much land oceans take up, nor how much the SEA LEVEL mechanic alters this. Most likely it will be somewhere between 40% (LOW) and 60% (HIGH), but may not hold to this estimation. I tend to just halve the estimated settlments (listed in the table) to account for water and probably deduct another 10% to cover left over and undesirebale land.

ADDENDUM
I created these tables to answer my own questions regarding balancing the game with different Map Size, Game Speed, Civlization and City State quatity combinations that were different to the default.

For others seeking to do this I have the following advice :
1. I would not increase the number of Civilizations past 14. As can be seen from the tables, the number of city states is always twice that of the number of civlizations. Unfortunately there are only 28 city states in the game, thus a maximum of 14 civilizations to preserve citystate-civilization balance.
2. City State gold gifts remain constant across all GAME SPEEDS and MAP SIZES and therefore are more valuable the FASTER the game speed (and possibly smaller the map, as I havn't tinkered to much with gold varience across these variables).
3. More civilizations mean more potential Research Agreements (tempered to some extent by the cost involved). This means faster overall tech competition.
4. More civilizations means more trade partners. This results is a greater potential for trade exploitation (ie selling OB to all players every X turns). It also means a greater chance of finding trade partners for needed luxuries (ie harder to be economically choked by competitors). More complicated diplomacy will also entail as trading with anyone is bound to annoy someone when many civilizations are involved.
5. Larger map sizes, and less populated maps, lead to longer Barabarian times and more troublesome Barbarians (as the ratio of Civs to Encampments goes down).
6. One city style strategies become less viable with Large and Huge maps, as indicated by the decreasing city policy penalty on these map sizes. For example you can have 5 cities on a Huge map for the same policy penalty as 3 cities on a Standard (or lower) size map.

TO DO
1. Ruins, Gold, Barbarians, Trade Items (OB), et al.
2. Confirm that Units, Buildings and Wonders use the same GAME SPEED production penalty.
3. Confirm the MAP SIZE/GAME SPEED technology penalty does not vary across ERA.
4. Lots of other stuff that I am too tired and lazy to list (Will also address any typos, etc at a later date).

Hope people out there find this useful. If anyone wishes to add something, especially on topics I have missed, please do so and I will try and update the record. I will also update things as I discover more, if there is any demonstrated interest.

PS Apologies for the less then stellar formatting. Unfortunately this forum strips non redundant whitespace and provides no table formatting options. The result is the best I could do in the time available. Sorry.

Last edited by Gabriel Pyyrhic: 11-14-2010 at 10:11 AM.
 
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Old 11-12-2010, 07:03 AM   #2
TomKQT
 
 
 
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Nice work.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:11 AM   #3
misterfitz
 
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+Rep.

Good job.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:25 PM   #4
Apheirox
 
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Interesting indeed. Even as a very experienced player I didn't know happiness isn't always subtracted by a flat '2' on every setting. Of course, I almost never play the larger maps. I wonder if this is entirely fair and if it doesn't put Gandhi at quite a disadvantage on these larger maps.

Thanks for your research, I've added reputation as well.

By the way, I've wondered a lot about how culture costs are calculated. Yes, the game states that it's a 30% increase. But - 30% of what? Compared to if you had the capital only? And in that case, is it really 30%? Because even if I haven't gone into that much depth looking at the math behind it, to me it looks like certainly a lot less than 30%. Does anybody have the full details on how this is calculated? Maybe that's for another thread though.

Last edited by Apheirox: 11-12-2010 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #5
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Firstly thanks all.

Apheirox - As far as I know Culture costs have a BASE cost for each policy level ie 1st Policy, 2ndPolicy etc. Now the 30%,20% or 15% is then added linearly (not compounding each time) to the base cost. For example, I often play Huge/Epic which adds 15% per city and has a BASE culture cost for the 1st policy of 35. If I then settled a new city BEFORE obtaining that culture level my cost would shoot up to 40.25, rounded to 40 most likely, (35 * 15% = 5.25, 5.25 + 35 = 40.25). I have checked this calculation with the 2nd culture level on this map size/game speed combination and it worked out as described. At some stage I will try and compile a list of all the base culture costs, across all policy levels, but thats a job for another day.

Just remember this does NOT compound, ie the 2nd city has the same penalty as the 1st or the 60th.

I also try to settle cities immediately after obtaining a culture level, as this gives you the most advantage for the incurred penalty. So if you are going to expand its better to do it straight after the 1st policy, and then again after the 2nd etc. So long as everything else remains equal anyway.

As for Ghandi being disadvantaged, its quite the opposite. Remember the penalty for population remains the same across map sizes/speeds so Ghandi gets the full benefit and has a lesser penalty for settling more cities. So Ghandi gets to setlle more cities, that then get to grow very fat in time, and takes less of an unhappiness hit for doing so (ie 2.4 per city instead of 4 per city). Whats not to like ? In addittion if he is trying for a cultural victory, he can settle 2 cities for the cultural cost of 1 on a standard or smaller map (15% vs 30%). Net result is that Ghandi, like Bismark, Suleiman, Augustus and many others benefits from the larger maps.

Hope that helps

Last edited by Gabriel Pyyrhic: 11-12-2010 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:40 PM   #6
Zyxpsilon
 
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Thanks a lot for this... eventually, you might want to put it all onto a PDF file or somethin' for others to simply use rather than having to read it here.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:21 AM   #7
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Will probably do that at some point, when I have a few more things worked out.
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