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Old 11-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #1
baduru
 
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Did not crashes with huge size map!!!

HI.

I have heard the huge size map causes crash. I started to play that size yesterday and I really do not know what happened, because it simply didn t crashed. I have played more than 200 turns normaly. I have observed also that the game was faster than usual. I know it seems strange, but happened.

Today when I started again to continue to play that match, it crashes after the third turn. I started again and it crashed again.

Does somebody have a solution for that?

Thanks.

Last edited by baduru: 11-12-2010 at 11:51 AM.
 
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:42 PM   #2
Arch Emperor
 
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1. Welcome to 2k games - Civ5, they like your money.
2. Play in Hex mode. (will not crash)
3. Shut off bloom rendering. ( have not tried this myself and don't know how to ).
4. Autosave every turn. And reload after crashes.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:18 PM   #3
Apheirox
 
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Can somebody confirm that huge maps crash for everybody? I've been unable to finish a single huge map (they've all crashed) but I thought it was due to my PC lacking power.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:33 PM   #4
baduru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Emperor View Post
1. Welcome to 2k games - Civ5, they like your money.
2. Play in Hex mode. (will not crash)
3. Shut off bloom rendering. ( have not tried this myself and don't know how to ).
4. Autosave every turn. And reload after crashes.

Emperor, thanks for your help.
Would you tell what is Hex mode? and how I do that?

Thanks a lot.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:34 PM   #5
baduru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apheirox View Post
Can somebody confirm that huge maps crash for everybody? I've been unable to finish a single huge map (they've all crashed) but I thought it was due to my PC lacking power.
Apheirox, I have heard it happens to everybody.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #6
Arch Emperor
 
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Hex mode is the little button far down to your right on the screen in game. It will make your game look ugly, but it wont crash.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:58 PM   #7
Ainvar
 
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Most systems It happen with low to high end grapics. There been ideas like Zoom in and crap but it dont work.
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:25 PM   #8
Apheirox
 
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How nice of them to release the game in a state where Huge maps are unplayable. Good job on the beta testing, Firaxis.
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Old 11-12-2010, 10:43 PM   #9
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Outside of the graphics system stability should not be affected by system speed, it should just take longer. Unfortunately in modern games, slower systems tend to exaserbate existing bugs.

I would guess that this issue is related to memory and memory management, but its only a guess.

I would suggest the following (and it probably wont make a lick of difference to stability, butit will improve performance and might be worth a shot at fixing the stability issues).

1. Make sure you have a system page file (ie virtual memory). Some people turn this off, and its not a good idea.
2. You can try runnig the Civ process at greater then normal priority, this may help with the turn processing. Dont raise it to realtime, just try the above normal, or possibly high if you must.
3. Try booting the system with less procesess running in the background (run msconfig). These chew up memory and processor time.
4. Disable Windows Search , through Msconifg in the services tab. REMEMBER TO REENABLE IT AFTER YOU ARE FINSIHED PLAYING.
5. Set your virus scanner to run in stealth/low processing mode (Avira for eaxmple has this) or completely disable it whilst playing. NOTE : I would advise not playing online, surfing the internet, or even connecting to the internet if you do this. It should free up substantial processing power but should only be done if playing offline.
6. Disable visual themes when running Civ, also disable aero. (Depending on you OS this may or may not be applicable).

All of this will improve your games performance and MAY help with HUGE map game stability.

I don't have a lot of time to add detailed caveats to the above tips, so I will just add one.

IF YOU ARE UNCERTAIN, OR DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAN EITHER POST BACK, GET HELP FROM SOMEONE OR DONT CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU CAN SCREW THINGS UP.

I don't want you to end up with a virus infected system or a permanent CTD. If you are familiar with tuning your system then go right ahead, otherwise ask for help on those issues you do not understand.

Hope this helps, gotta go.
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:28 AM   #10
Ainvar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Pyyrhic View Post
Outside of the graphics system stability should not be affected by system speed, it should just take longer. Unfortunately in modern games, slower systems tend to exaserbate existing bugs.
This one happening on systems with Intel i7 980 chips with 6 cores 12 mb cache with huge amout of ram to Low end systems. So the Range the issues happening on Wide base from low end to High end systems. Low end grapics to High end Grapics.

Quote:
I would guess that this issue is related to memory and memory management, but its only a guess.
I have to agree that it could be. But My guess is bad Game coding.

Quote:
1. Make sure you have a system page file (ie virtual memory). Some people turn this off, and its not a good idea.
Location where the Virtual Ram is can be a factor due to space you have on your system. If you have less then 10gb of hard drive or solid State drive mybe cleaning out some old Software like old games. Home Videos or pictures Move them to a External hard disk or CD. Or if you have a Secondary internal Hard drive Move some programs, Pictures Documents there.

Quote:
2. You can try runnig the Civ process at greater then normal priority, this may help with the turn processing. Dont raise it to realtime, just try the above normal, or possibly high if you must.
Might be ok with Amd and intel Pendium D core 2 Dual core or Quad core. Some people on 2k website seid it did not make a differance the game still crashed but worth a try. But some intel i5 and i7 chips Automaticly Overclock one cpu and disable the Other Cpus on demand.

Quote:
3. Try booting the system with less procesess running in the background (run msconfig). These chew up memory and processor time.
Not a bad Suggestion. With systems with 4gb or less.

Quote:
4. Disable Windows Search , through Msconifg in the services tab. REMEMBER TO REENABLE IT AFTER YOU ARE FINSIHED PLAYING.
Not sure about that one. So no comment.

Quote:
5. Set your virus scanner to run in stealth/low processing mode (Avira for eaxmple has this) or completely disable it whilst playing. NOTE : I would advise not playing online, surfing the internet, or even connecting to the internet if you do this. It should free up substantial processing power but should only be done if playing offline.
I have to agree with you on this one. Another idea is go for Antivirus programs that have no Bloatware on them.

Quote:
6. Disable visual themes when running Civ, also disable aero. (Depending on you OS this may or may not be applicable).
I have to agree on you with this one also. Another area to check for is Bloatware Programs that where installed on your system was new. Stuff like 50 song free. The 30 day trail of a Antivirus program. The Camcorder program that boots up when your system boots up. All that can be disabled.


For Advanced Users Windows Reinstall or Factory Restore. Save important Files, Pictures and Videos Frist.

Idea is try a Clean windows reinstall with Newest Drivers. Write down the Older Drivers and make sure you have them on hand So If newer Drivers affect your system a differnt way. You can go back to Known Good drivers.

Some people had it work some people Seid it did not help. So it a flip of a coin.

Last edited by Ainvar: 11-13-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:10 AM   #11
Roi Danton
 
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Cool

I tested lots of solutions which might help. For example playing in hex mode etc.
But none of the solution could help.
They may help someone for one game but next time he stuck in the problems again.
CIV V is BUGGY!!!
Thats why it crashes on huge maps!
It won’t help cleaning up your hard drive or disabling themes. Because the game is buggy not your PC and you can’t fix the game by doing something on your PC!
These are useless hints. Maybe someone has really a full hd so it will help him keeping an eye on his PC but the game will still crash regardless what he’s doing.

I would suggest playing smaller maps until a patch arrives.
If you can't wait, the only thing you could do is save! Save! Save!
F11 is your friend!
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:15 PM   #12
Ainvar
 
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Good suggestion Roi Danton another idea. Set the game to save every turn or every other turn for 5 to 10 turns.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:44 AM   #13
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Ainver

You may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say here, or perhaps it was just badly worded on my part.

Quote:
Outside of the graphics system stability should not be affected by system speed, it should just take longer. Unfortunately in modern games, slower systems tend to exaserbate existing bugs.

This one happening on systems with Intel i7 980 chips with 6 cores 12 mb cache with huge amout of ram to Low end systems. So the Range the issues happening on Wide base from low end to High end systems. Low end grapics to High end Grapics.
What I meant was the speed of someones system SHOULD NOT affect the stability of a given game UNLESS there are existing bugs in the game. In other words when people blame the speed of anothers system for crashes it is generally the result or erroneous code.

My statements about memory and memory management were an allusion the Civ 5's code in these areas, not so much the system its self.

As for Windows Search, well its a resource hog when it is actively acrhiving, watch it on the task manager.

Raising the priority should help regardless of the core scehdueling for a given processor. Having a higher priority just makes sure that the process gets more processing time and therefor is beneficial regardless of the number of cores involved. A higher priority may even ensure a dedciated core on such automated core systems (not sure about that one, just a guess really). Try switching to a different process when one is set to above normal or high, that program runs at a comparative crawl.
Although I can't guarantee this will be the case on the systems you mentioned, I would be very surprised if a higher processing priority did not result in a performance gain.

I hope that clarifies my perspective, if I have made error please let me know.

And thanks for critiquing my suggestions. Helps mkae sure I don't make any mistakes or assumptions.

........

Mr Roi Danton IF YOU READ MY POST you would have seen they were suggestions for increasing system performance which DO help reduce crashes/freezes in games. I never once stated that they would fix MECHANIC BUGS, or even fix persistent crashes from HUGE MAPS. I even stated and I qoute "THAT IT WILL PROBABLY NOT MAKE A LICK OF DIFFERENCE" in that regard.

These solutions are generic, they help with any game and they are known to many people not just me.

Instead of wallowing in the whole Civ 5 is buggy and I am going to have a rant. I thought I would give a few suggestions that may help with stability, and WILL help with performance.

As Civ 5 does not crash at the same point on everyones system when it comes to huge maps, that suggests that a performance increase (or in actuality reducing system overload) may allow someone to get further.

The fact that it involves a huge map suggests its a resource problem, be it memory or processing. So increasing system performance may help.

Perhaps your post was aimed at others not myself and I am overreacting to your comments, if so please ignore the above and accept my apologies.

Eitherway best of luck with you Civ future, and heres hoping for a patch.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:01 AM   #14
Roi Danton
 
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Hi Gabriel,

I understand your intention now but however. These hints are so unspecific and wrong. They wount help everyone.
For example the indexing service, it is completely useless to tell anyone to disable it. It won’t speed up anything.
Why?
The service is indexing specific locations to improve your search. You can configure these locations in the system controls. Once the indexer has indexed all your files it will stop. In the most common installation these are only a few files and if you use outlook it will take care of your mails as well. And as long you do not create new files in the indexed location it will do nothing. This is not a stupid service which is indexing the same things over and over again.
Now you are thinking: "Ohu no but my task manger tells me that..."
Hmm maybe you are using still Windows XP and the old indexing service?
Right! But I'm using W7 and this is different.
Do you see what I mean now? You could not give general hints for every operating system. If you have found out something what makes your system faster than it would be a good idea to specify your system so that someone who has a similar problem may find a help. But for all the others who have not your system most of the hints are useless or would cause them problems.
Here are enough peoples around who read your post and following it instantly and deactivating there index service but after a few days they start wondering why the search is not working probably.
So it would also be good if you tell someone to do something, tell him also the side effects! If you disable something it's not binging you only performance! Most of the services are using the resources for a very good reason.

And at the end, please don't get to angry with me. I saw just too much senseless post in this forum
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:22 AM   #15
Gabriel Pyyrhic
 
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Roi

Ok Roi no anger.

My terse response was due to both the tone and sweeping accusations made within yours. The words you use, "useless", "senseless" etc are more than a little provoking, so why are you surprised when someones responds to it. Your initial post was filled with frustration and anger towards civ V and against those with suggestions to alleviate problems. If you had said something along the lines of, "I don't think this will work as I have a High end system and still get the problem", I would not have responded one way or the other, but you didn't.
Perhaps you should asses your own vitriol before preempting my response.

Now in response to what you said.

1. I am well aware of what the indexing service does. I am also aware that you can configure it. Truth is most people do not. Also it is far easier to temporarily disable something to see if it helps then reconfigure. Worse case you reenable, its a service not a pacemaker.

2. As for people blindly following what I said, geez people are not all lemmings and my post was lathered in CAVEATS in CAPITALS warning people about changing things they were unfamilair with. Here is ONE direct qoute.

Quote:

I don't have a lot of time to add detailed caveats to the above tips, so I will just add one.

IF YOU ARE UNCERTAIN, OR DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAN EITHER POST BACK, GET HELP FROM SOMEONE OR DONT CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU CAN SCREW THINGS UP.

Short of klaxons, and flashing neon lights what more should I add.

3. Next to what I said about the indexing service I also added the following :

Quote:
4. Disable Windows Search , through Msconifg in the services tab. REMEMBER TO REENABLE IT AFTER YOU ARE FINSIHED PLAYING.
Notice the use of capitlization.

I warned them about not reenabling it, and if they forget ??? Shock horror search doesn't work (and in actuality I think it just restricts the speed of the search as the service probably reenables when used, but I am not certain).

4. For the record I am using Windows 7 not XP.

5. If I had had more time I would have listed quite a few other services, but time was short so I picked one service that I knew impacted lower end systems that have less cores, as a performance tip.

6. As for your statement about services using resources for a very good reason, thats a almost paradoxical position following your previous statements. You just said Windows Search does nothing (from a resource perspective) and its pointless disbaling it for performance, now you saying it uses resources for a very good reason. Windows search is solely an indexing service, nothing more. The resaon behind its resource use is that it is trolling the filesystem, and indexing it, which by its very nature is a resource intensive task. Its not a critical srevice within the system. So please explain how its going to adversely affect the system disabling it.

In the end all I did was provide some general suggestions for improving performance, Windows Search was just one of them. I never said that these things were the reason for the bugs, in fact quite the opposite. My sole assertion was that game engine bugs are exaserbated on stressed systems. Thats not an opinion, its fact.

Finally I EXPLICITELY STATED that the tips were unlikely to solve the problem. I said they MIGHT help with stability and will help with performance. Thats all.

Its like anti-virals they are not guaranteed to help, but unless you try you will not know one way or the other.

I think thats a slightly better attitude then I can't solve the problem so why bother trying.

In closing I would say this. I share your frustration with this games bugs, I really do. I also admit that I responded somewhat strongly to your post. I was however more then a little annoyed with your dismissive attack on myself and others for tyring to assist, especially in light of how the suggestions were phrased.

So in an effort to extend an olive branch, perhaps we can agree to disagree and mutually regret each others transgressions. Hmmmmmm perhaps that could be a Civ V dialogue for ending a War

So all that said, goodluck, goodbye, and best wishes.
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