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Old 02-15-2011, 02:17 PM   #1
NavadeHi
 
 
 
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Lightbulb Permanent bans

Dear Valve developement team,

I think the VAC system is good and does it's job well, but why are bans permanent?
People make mistakes, this is commonly known and if someone gets banned for a year, I don't think this person will cheat ever again and you could like then permanent ban them when they still cheat again or for two years or whatever. But I just think this is a bit too harsh, I just wanted to let know how I think about it. People aren't perfect.

Best regards,

Nathan
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:20 PM   #2
Aces-B2
 
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I am just going to go out on a limb, and assume you have been banned by VAC.

Nobody wants to play with cheaters, theres no point and it ruins the fun. Considering VAC takes months to make a ban, if it does ban it should be perm.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:24 PM   #3
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VAC used to have timed bans, but guess what? They usually went right back to cheating after the ban was over. VAC isn't a cheat prevention system, it is a cheat punishment system, and I think being permanently banned is adequate punishment for cheating. If people make a "mistake" as you say, then they learn the hard way the consequences of their actions.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:26 PM   #4
real4xor
 
 
 
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If you want to cheat, do it the richkid way.

Make a new account, buy all the games again, and cheat like hell. Get VAC banned, then... make another account, buy all games again, and cheat like hell, get VAC banned again, then... empty bank account.
But at least Vavle got sponsored.

I think the pemanent ban is a bit harsh, but if it`s an actual mistake of some sorts, they will revert a ban.
And nobody likes a cheater anyway, so perma ban it is then.
They won`t always revert it from hijacks tho, I think that`s a bit annoying, but just make sure your account doesn`t get hijacked then.
A one-time ticket to freedom (one chance to get unbanned) might be nice, but it might generate a whole new line of complaints... :/ not sure if that would work.

Last edited by real4xor: 02-15-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #5
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You are right, nobody wants to play with cheaters, but do you think someone will cheat after they've been banned for a year? Of course, there might be exceptions and these individuals can then be perm banned, but a second chance would be good for non-cheaters as well, since they'll be having more people to play with.

Once a cheater doesn't necessarily mean always a cheater.

Offtopic: This is a suggestion and not a personal request of mine to get unbanned. As this is of no importance to me.

Edit: What kind of cheaters were these people that went cheating right after they got unbanned, it might easily differ per situation...

0ddity: I think being banned for a year or two is quite a hard consequence as well, since games like Call of Duty have successors real quick.

Quote:
And nobody likes a cheater anyway, so perma ban it is then.
I can imagine little kids cheating in board games as well, but will they be a cheater forever or learn from their fault?

Last edited by NavadeHi: 02-15-2011 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:39 PM   #6
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You cheat, you get banned. No, it isn't harsh.

I think it should be worse in the sense that your entire account gets disabled. Anyone who has ever played with a blatant hacker knows how much it ruins the game for everyone else. And since VAC is delayed, we just have to put up with it or leave. You put an unnecessary burden on us, and so we put it right back on you. If you were VAC banned, I'm glad.

I hope you learned your lesson.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #7
Fyndir
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavadeHi View Post
Edit: What kind of cheaters were these people that went cheating right after they got unbanned, it might easily differ per situation...
It could very easily differ, but the point is that Valve already tried temporary bans, and after a while decided that it wasn't working well enough, and moved on to permanent bans.

There is no reason for them to try that again.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavadeHi View Post
You are right, nobody wants to play with cheaters, but do you think someone will cheat after they've been banned for a year? Of course, there might be exceptions and these individuals can then be perm banned, but a second chance would be good for non-cheaters as well, since they'll be having more people to play with.

Once a cheater doesn't necessarily mean always a cheater.

Offtopic: This is a suggestion and not a personal request of mine to get unbanned. As this is of no importance to me.

Edit: What kind of cheaters were these people that went cheating right after they got unbanned, it might easily differ per situation...

0ddity: I think being banned for a year or two is quite a hard consequence as well, since games like Call of Duty have successors real quick.


I can imagine little kids cheating in board games as well, but will they be a cheater forever or learn from their fault?
Its not harsh at all, why should people who work hard for their money, be forced to play with people who want to ruin their fun, most of the cheaters are people who don't buy the game with their own money or buy the game at a discount.

Its not like they can't play, you can still play TF2, CS:S with a VAC ban, you are just not allowed to play on VAC servers.

And it doesn't differ per situation, you hack = ban, VAC doesn't see oh hes doing good he should be perm banned, no, everyone of those people had a cheat of some sort on a vac enabled game or server.

You are right in saying that just because you cheat once doesn't mean you wont cheat again, but this isn't a world where everyone who cheats and gets banned will never cheat. You cheat = you lose the right to play your game with other people, end of story.

Disputing this is pointless, the only people who will be for this are either VAC banned or want someone who IS vac banned to have their vac ban lifted. Steam/Valve will never agree to this as the major population of steam users.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:46 PM   #9
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I am not VAC banned and it's not the issue, I just wanted to suggest something to the Valve development team, not necessarily to the community, but there's no other way.

See, if someone is unknowing (maybe it's still a child) and hears from his friends/someone about this new thing and tries it, he definitely didn't mean it that way and got banned for life. But if he would be unbanned after 1/2 years and get good explanation and most importantly, LEARN what mistake he made, he shouldn't cheat again. Now if he cheats again, he gets a perm ban and yeah, too bad, but you've got your second chance.

It would just be a bit more lenient and maybe no-one from the community and Valve wants this. And maybe Valve just wants to make more money by letting first-time cheaters buy the game again and all that if they want to play online again, but yeah, I would suggest to give people a second chance. And I understand that it takes some time before someone gets banned, but maybe you could like put a label on a ex-cheater so that they get banned faster when something is detected, everyone happy?

Edit: Yes, TF2 and CSS are designed properly. Props to Valve, but games like Call of Duty (IW) are not and they still use VAC.

Just a bit of customer service and remember, I'm just suggesting something and maybe the dev team can look into it sometime and see what they can do.

Community: I understand that you don't want filthy cheaters to get unbanned so that they can cheat like never before, but do you really want first-timers to get a lifelong ban because of these bastards?

Last edited by NavadeHi: 02-15-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavadeHi View Post
See, if someone is unknowing (maybe it's still a child) and hears from his friends/someone about this new thing and tries it, he definitely didn't mean it that way and got banned for life.
If they're still a child they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.

If they're not a child but are "unknowing" then tough, you can't protect people from their own stupidity or ignorance.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #11
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They're still a customer, you can't say, oh you are not old enough to play this game, so give the game back and here's your money.

No, but you can be a bit more flexible, maybe Valve is already thinking about this, but I just wanted to shed some light on this issue, my opinion and now I know yours, we can all be friends right? (I'm no cheater )
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavadeHi View Post
I am not VAC banned and it's not the issue, I just wanted to suggest something to the Valve development team, not necessarily to the community, but there's no other way.

See, if someone is unknowing (maybe it's still a child) and hears from his friends/someone about this new thing and tries it, he definitely didn't mean it that way and got banned for life. But if he would be unbanned after 1/2 years and get good explanation and most importantly, LEARN what mistake he made, he shouldn't cheat again. Now if he cheats again, he gets a perm ban and yeah, too bad, but you've got your second chance.

It would just be a bit more lenient and maybe no-one from the community and Valve wants this. And maybe Valve just wants to make more money by letting first-time cheaters buy the game again and all that if they want to play online again, but yeah, I would suggest to give people a second chance. And I understand that it takes some time before someone gets banned, but maybe you could like put a label on a ex-cheater so that they get banned faster when something is detected, everyone happy?

Edit: Yes, TF2 and CSS are designed properly. Props to Valve, but games like Call of Duty (IW) are not and they still use VAC.

Just a bit of customer service and remember, I'm just suggesting something and maybe the dev team can look into it sometime and see what they can do.

Community: I understand that you don't want filthy cheaters to get unbanned so that they can cheat like never before, but do you really want first-timers to get a lifelong ban because of these bastards?
It is the users responsibility to be aware of the rules pertaining to the anti-cheat software. I cannot think of any realistic situation where someone would download a hack without knowing. It is an important lesson for any first-time cheater if they lose a game.

I don't have sympathy for them because I have yet to see a case where an incorrectly issued ban was not reversed when it turned out to be a fault of VAC.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:59 PM   #13
Fyndir
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavadeHi View Post
maybe Valve is already thinking about this
Unlikely, since they tried it in the past and it worked poorly enough that they moved on to permanent bans, as a couple of people have told you already.
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Old 02-15-2011, 02:59 PM   #14
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Well, they might be able to do such a thing, but what would the consequences be?

Rich kids can cheat twice as much then. They`ll just keep buying counter strike on a deal and cheat like hell. heck, get a fourpack gift it to all four of his own accounts and annoy the heck out of everybody. They do it now, but if they can get unbanned once, they can do it twice as much for half the money.

I wouldn`t mind a one time unban, but it would need certain restrictions before you can "earn" such a thing... like being a long time member, or otherwise having an account that`s "worth the trouble" so to speak.
Although in that case, you usually think twice before even getting a chance of VAC banned, meaning it`ll only be that rare occasion of VAC making errors. And those obviously get reverted.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:04 PM   #15
NavadeHi
 
 
 
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Valve could like IP ban these rich kids...

Yes, real4xor, I agree that certain conditions should be met before you can get this once in a lifetime chance of getting unbanned.

anelaidlives: They should know, definitely.
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