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Old 03-01-2011, 09:11 AM   #1
Fhoenix
 
 
 
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What do I do to decrease the reliance of industry and agriculture on oil?

By the end of the game I still have some oil but all of it goes to tranport and energy. The energy sector does not care how little oil is left and uses anyway. It never replaces it fully with coal or gas even though in real life both of these recources would probably be much cheaper considering how little oil is left. The same goes for transport, even with electrict transport completed it still uses oil (and much more than 20%).
Agriculture and industry get zero oil. I still get lots of money from commerce, but it leads to unemployment and an economic crisis down the road. Which doesn't matter much since I win anyway. But it sure bugs me. I want to have a working industry and agriculture, but as far as I can tell there is no way to replace oil with other recourses for these two sectors.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:24 AM   #2
SixString
 
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Did you manage to get 3rd gen biofuels? In beta there was a bio-polymers tech you could get after 3rd gen that eliminated industrial use of oil to make plastics. If that's still an option it could help.

Something I noticed playing on my lunch break today is that when you start encouraging biofuels in a region it doesn't do any good if the agriculture industry isn't producing much. I'd try pumping biofuels early and doing everything possible to drive crop yields up in at least a few regions.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:48 AM   #3
Fhoenix
 
 
 
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My capital index plummeted around 2080. I got 3rd gen biofuel around 2095. I was researching biotech every turn in Japan, not sure I could get it faster.

The thing is, I am not even sure that the problem is in the ammount of oil. At peak oil the market was around 45,000. In 2100 my oil market was at the all time low of 18,000. Which is maybe not even that low. It's just that every single drop of that oil went to energy and trasport. While industry got "Industry resources under supplied - Oil = 100%" message every turn.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:20 AM   #4
SixString
 
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I'm getting the feeling that the energy sector gets first dibs on all resources. Maybe the trick is to get as much generation coming from renewables and nukes as possible.

There's a lot of pieces that support each other, so I'm starting to wonder if it's actually even possible to recover from some collapses. For example even if you implement electric vehicles the agriculture industry demands oil. But if output starts to drop from lack of oil before you can fully replace it with biofuels then you can't grow enough feedstock to produce them to begin with.

This game is making me want to go back and reread Jared Diamond's book Collapse
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:36 AM   #5
Fhoenix
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixString View Post
I'm getting the feeling that the energy sector gets first dibs on all resources. Maybe the trick is to get as much generation coming from renewables and nukes as possible.
I am getting that feeling too. And from an economic point of view it does not make much sense to me.
I would love to go the nuclear path except that the game has very little uranium to run its nuclear power plants. I run out of uranium before I run out of oil. And the renewables have an upper limit in every region.
Besides even 10 percent of oil in the evergy sector is too much oil in the energy sector. It's just too valuble in the end game to go there.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:16 PM   #6
Archonsod
 
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Another thing to bear in mind is that all of the cards which reduce a sector's demand on a fossil fuel, from electric cars to no coal industry, just shunt that demand to the energy sector. In order to truly reduce demand you have to wean the energy sector off fossil fuels before you start increasing demands on it, otherwise they'll increase their fossil fuel use to meet the increased demand.

My own strategy is to start pushing out biofuels early in Africa and South Asia, which will help alleviate oil shortages. You don't need to worry about food too much, as long as the world has a net surplus you can use famine relief to alleviate food shortages in individual regions till you can deploy third gen biofuels.
Don't be afraid to expand fossil fuel use if necessary either. A global economic collapse is far harder to reverse than increased emissions from expanding oil production. By the same token increasing natural gas use will hurt you far less in the long term than having regions start utilising tar sand oil and similar high emission methods.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:01 PM   #7
Iselwin
 
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Originally Posted by Archonsod View Post

My own strategy is to start pushing out biofuels early in Africa and South Asia, which will help alleviate oil shortages.
Have you managed to figure out the current biofuel mechanism? Does the biofuel add up to the global pool of oil as it used to do in beta? Do they have some special effect on region where they are used? Also, do they not need deployment altogether and are used as soon as the region discovers them? I couldn't find Deploy X-gen biofuel card; is it there somewhere?
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:16 PM   #8
SunBloom7
 
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The Cap and Trade project works on exactly this problem, but it's delayed and has multiple phases to it. You need to have a Cap and Trade project functioning in multiple rich areas before being able to benefit from it anywhere, and I believe it requires the population of an area to have an environmental attitude of "balanced" or better before the various unlockable projects will function properly. I get the feeling that Cap and Trade is something you're supposed to put a lot of momentum behind, or not use at all.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:48 AM   #9
Archonsod
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iselwin View Post
Have you managed to figure out the current biofuel mechanism? Does the biofuel add up to the global pool of oil as it used to do in beta? Do they have some special effect on region where they are used? Also, do they not need deployment altogether and are used as soon as the region discovers them? I couldn't find Deploy X-gen biofuel card; is it there somewhere?
Not sure on the mechanism, I'm still trying to see if it's tied to agriculture or not. It does reduce oil shortages in the country using it. Not sure if it's worldwide or not, I did see oil shortages dropping in countries which weren't expanding biofuels, but this could be because those which were aren't consuming as much oil from the global pool.

They don't need deployment, once a region has the tech it automatically deploys it. I'm not certain on the precise effects. I was expecting food production to drop as it did in beta, but thus far I've not seen anyone complain about food shortages and the only nation to go into famine is India which I believe actually starts off with a famine (and it seems to be permanent, even when using high yield GM crops they complain about a food scarcity).
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:41 AM   #10
Lavode
 
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It is possible to supply all demand for oil by massive use of of the biofuel card + employing unemployed bodies in agriculture (check the population stats in a region. if there are idle hands, make them farm.) + biochar.
This makes electrifing transport a waste of electricity you need badly for industry, but while doing this dance worked for limping across the victory line in the fuel-shortage senario,
For the 3 degree senario running out of coal and uranium kills my economy deader than the tapir just as fusion finally shows up, even with renewables fully built out - I dont think there is any way to beat this without doing very drastic things to the global population until breeders work right (if breeders worked right, I could go nuclear and not worry about the coal shortage)
Anyone managed to bring 8+ billion to the year 2200 ?
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