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Old 03-24-2011, 07:30 PM   #1
shotgunefx
 
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[wip] - Last Bastion

Since all my previous threads were nuked... a recap. Last Bastion is a campaign set in South Boston aka "Southie" where you have to fight your way to Fort Independence (Castle Island)

I've started working on map two, right now, just roughing out the geometry. Not very detailed, also, the terrain is just a placeholder. I'm not using my terrain and curb displacement generators until finished. Just easier to work with when the ground is flat. The Sketchup tools I've been working on are making it go relatively quick, this is only a few days of work.

For reference, this link on Google Maps will start you at the same location as the first screen shot.














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Old 03-24-2011, 07:36 PM   #2
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:37 PM   #3
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:51 PM   #4
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Glad you brought this thread back from the accidental purge. It's looking fantastic and I hope to learn more details about your ways on avoiding development hell.
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:41 PM   #5
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Glad you brought this thread back from the accidental purge. It's looking fantastic and I hope to learn more details about your ways on avoiding development hell.
Glad to be working on it again!

So the windows in the power plant, those are just temps. Been working on the models for them. So far, pretty happy with them.





I was having a hard time texturing the curved brick on the arches, and I ALMOST was going to write something to do it, then I thought, I wonder if someone else already has? So I found Thomthom's UV Toolkit2 for sketchup, there is a function called Fit Textures to Quad Faces that made it a snap!
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:57 PM   #6
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First get Shotgunefx's texturing plug-in:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1767058

And to texture a arch, first texture the top brick front face, then wrap that around to the bottom face, then wrap that to the bottom faces of the next brick. Use the bottom of each brick then to texture the front face. This will auto-rotate the material as you move around. (Kinda hard to explain)

Have you tried yet to export a face that has a three way stretched texture? (length, width, and skewed)
I thought that VMF only supported texture scaling, not skewing.

As far as feedback on your map, the buildings all look great. But there is quite a bit of empty space between them.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by zapwizard View Post
First get Shotgunefx's texturing plug-in:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1767058

And to texture a arch, first texture the top brick front face, then wrap that around to the bottom face, then wrap that to the bottom faces of the next brick. Use the bottom of each brick then to texture the front face. This will auto-rotate the material as you move around. (Kinda hard to explain)

Have you tried yet to export a face that has a three way stretched texture? (length, width, and skewed)
I thought that VMF only supported texture scaling, not skewing.

As far as feedback on your map, the buildings all look great. But there is quite a bit of empty space between them.
The old alt-click road trick doesn't really work for brick (or other repeating patterns), what happens is the mortal lines make the edges quite apparent.

Unfortunately, as well as that quad face plugin works, on the export a few of the faces don't take. But still, I'd rather touch 5 out of 50 faces, then do 50 by hand....

You can see, to the left of the arch, that the bricks scale is way off. (Also interesting how different bump maps look on LightmappedGeneric and VertexlitGeneric)



Looks fine in Sketchup. Even if I cut the model in half and flip it and paste it on the other end, it still gets messed up on one side only. Guessing it has something to do with triangulating the SMDs.

The other downer is it maps the whole texture to a quad face, so I had to make a smaller one, seeing it's open source, maybe I'll extend it to a subset of the material selection. I'd rather not make extra materials if at all possible.

As far as I know, you can only have UV scaling in VMF, technically you can have your UV reside in a plane that isn't on the face and you *might* be able to approximate it, but it's technically an error and probably won't do what you want (If hammer doesn't choke on it).

Thanks for the feedback. I'm only a few days in, a lot is still missing, but actually if you look at that area on Google Maps, you'll see it's pretty sparse for those few blocks. Lot's of open lots, granted they'll have a lot of stuff in em, but it's a pretty open industrial area. That Greyhound takes up half a block by itself. The area you're looking at (near the ratty garage) is the transition from 2-3. Slightly beyond is a giant park, then tightly packed residential.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:33 AM   #8
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-I've been wondering if you have a WIP going on after all you know that you teach everyone. =]
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:06 AM   #9
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Wow I was tired when I replied, and didn't notice I told you to get your own plugin.

Does anyone know if you make two VMTs: one for models, one for brushes, and they both reference the same VTF..is only one texture loaded into memory? Since the different between the VMTs is just shader stuff, I would think it would load a texture only once.
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:12 AM   #10
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Wow I was tired when I replied, and didn't notice I told you to get your own plugin.

Does anyone know if you make two VMTs: one for models, one for brushes, and they both reference the same VTF..is only one texture loaded into memory? Since the different between the VMTs is just shader stuff, I would think it would load a texture only once.
I was pretty tired myself, I didn't get that you were telling ME to get it either lol.

You know, as far as the VMTs, i had the same question. I had asked something similar (in the deleted thread), and while I get the impression that is the case, I don't know for sure. I'd also like to know the cost of colored VMTs, so many types of siding. I'm trying to keep textures down and use a lot of colored versions.

So, manage to get a bit more roughed in. Keep in mind, the "ground" in this pic is not the size of the map, not even close.







An oddity with displacements I've discovered. It seems like if another brush resides in the same place as a displacement, it doesn't show through.

Take this building. One of the problems I have is so many of the houses I'm modeling are so box like. So I'm trying to subtly make them a little less polygonal.

I figured one way would be to use displacements for parts of the houses to make the lighting and shadows a little smoother, like this one.



I figured for houses like this with two colors (and there are a lot), I could just displace the top, not worry about the difference in brush vs displacement lighting, but I'm getting a gap. (and the displacement is not displaced on the edges)



So, I had a nodraw "behind" the displacement for vis purposes, so I figued if I painted it toolsblack or something, that would hide it like so.



Not only is the toolsblack not visible through the gap, it's not visible even when the displacement sinks below it. Really weird.

Also took a pass at putting the model arches in, I've got to play with the lighting, when your flashlight isn't on it, looks pretty terrible.

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Old 03-30-2011, 12:47 AM   #11
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Little update. Got most of the exterior of the saferoom done.





Also took a pass at the Edison (power plant) arches.



Doesn't look too bad but still needs some work, I started re-texturing the curves in KHED, which was a total pain, for some reason, it's exporting almost every face with it's own copy of material, which means I have hundreds that I have to group and manually assign. GRRR.

But I realized something worse. You can't really texture like that in SMD. I was forgetting it triangulates everything. Cant' have a texture in a quad projection on a triangle. Well you can, but doesn't look quite right (wavy mortar lines). Probably why the SMD export borks the UVs in the first place.



That leaves me with two options. Increase the poly count so it's not as obvious, or B, make a single texture for all of the "wedge" faces so I can just planar project it on. Sketchup actually does have a function to make unique textures like that off of textured faces, but I'm trying to keep my materials down and it would have to be at least 1024x1024 I think, even optimized for space.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:12 PM   #12
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Do the brick arches have to be perfect?
In the screenshot the arches look great.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:43 PM   #13
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Do the brick arches have to be perfect?
In the screenshot the arches look great.
Thanks Zap, you know, one of the reasons it's going so much faster this go round is just keeping "good enough" in mind and not going bogged down on tiny differences in the details. They actually don't look bad from the ground, but if you're on the roof (or a Hunter near it)



And the faces with tiny UVs get a lot of noise when you're moving around from the mipmapping.

I could have had it fixed in khed relatively quick, but the hundreds of copies of the 4 materials is killing me. That's why I may try the Sketchup way of combining textures, the UVs will be nice and flat,1:1, even if they do get screwed up.

http://forums.sketchucation.com/view...p?f=18&t=21847
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:04 PM   #14
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Looks good. The streets though are bit wide. Even if there on scale with real life. Wide street likes that can create gameplay issues. Hassle to cross over multiple times, too wide needing more detailing hurting performance, texture patterns visible etc. In my campaign I made my roads 512 units. But later on I regretted that bcuase of those issues, but the map was too developed at that point to change the width. (From now I'm always going for 300 units). When you got 300 unit road, and 128 units side walk on each side the buildings towering over the players it creates a nice cozy feeling while playing.

Last edited by Keldorn: 03-30-2011 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:28 PM   #15
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Looks good. The streets though are bit wide. Even if there on scale with real life. Wide street likes that can create gameplay issues. Hassle to cross over multiple times, too wide needing more detailing hurting performance, texture patterns visible etc. In my campaign I made my roads 512 units. But later on I regretted that bcuase of those issues, but the map was too developed at that point to change the width. (From now I'm always going for 300 units). When you got 300 unit road, and 128 units side walk on each side the buildings towering over the players it creates a nice cozy feeling while playing.
There are only 3 "wide" roads that show up anywhere in the campaign. That safe room sits at the intersection of 2 of them. Most of the streets are normal size, if not smaller.

I see what you mean, the thing is, besides looking off, some of it would look downright wrong, for instance a bus terminal that can't fit a bus in it (and it's already smaller than IRL). Almost all of 1st is industrial.

But the other areas you'll be going through are all much narrower, tightly packed houses, with tons of rooftops to attack from, and alleys between every couple of houses to run out of.

I figure to break up the pacing, I'll just force the path through backyards and sideyards, and when I want a breather, direct them through the wider areas, like the park.

Also as far as the bus terminal, in all likelyhood, a bus crash will be blocking the street forcing you to fight your way all through the terminal complex, out through the back, or having to fight through the area where the giant "barn" is. Keep in mind, thats nothing but a placeholder. That whole yard will be filled with bricks and pallets.

I'm hoping to have two paths at all points at least if I can, but it also means double my work, so we'll see how long I keep that up.
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