Everything wrong with Source, fix it!

Edit: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FixSource - As this thread is older now, anyone who wants to support this, join this group!

Hi, firstly I will start off by informing people of who I am, my experience within the game and anything else just as a small introduction.

I am 21 years old and I have been playing CS: Source since day one it was released. I am an ex-professional gamer who played for London MiNT, 4Kings etc.. Currently playing for Fragmasters Toxic one of the top5 European Teams in CS: Source.

I am going to address and provide as much proof as possible with the issues Source has right now. There are many. Over the next few days I will be providing some video footage with the help of choong, another CS:S player.. Lets not turn this into a 1.6/CS:S debate either, I love both games, more-so 1.6 but I understand this is Source and I liked the old Source.

Ok, firstly the interpolation bug is still there, after years. But now it is worse. Ever get the feeling that you are being shot before you get a chance to react? I know this bug exists because everyone talks about it. Simple as that. There is many videos of this floating around - most of them old, so I'll get around to making a new one asap. But it is a fact that bug exists and to be quite frank, I think it should have always been the number 1 priority. Back in the old CS:S it was a problem but now it is a bit out of hand.

Secondly, the dieing behind walls bug, we made video clips last time and I still have one here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zF7mYfs6UI&hd=1

Don't give me the rubbish about it waiting for the server to update etc, you can see with both settings the player model is dragged back onto the screen - this doesn't happen in 1.6, and it was very very rare in the old Source if you compare it to now. This kind of thing has stopped players fake peaking awpers as they just get dragged back and once again making an already dominant AWP, even stronger.

Thirdly, the gun rate of fire is different to 1.6 and the old CS:S, code or not, it is not the same and the recoil pattern is disgusting screwed up. Notice now that when you spray your pattern SOMETIMES decides to just fly left and right for no reason? But other times it won't? I will provide proof of this asap also as I have a few demos where it is very clear and its another thing I hear many top players complain about. (See below about more of rate of fire).

Fourth, the servers are not right since they have been 66 ticrate. When CS:S beta was first released it was 100tick servers and the game felt insane. It was great, smooth, registry was a lot better, spray patterns were fine, the recoil was fine all the time.. You can tell me its all the same now but it is not, especially the rate of fire you said you matched it to the 100tick serveers but it definatly isn't. I've downloaded stand-alone CS:S clients and it is much difference. You can also tell from looking at any old CS:S clips on YouTube. The AK especially its very noticeable. The game just chugs now.

One of the other things that needs to be addressed is the 'feel' of the game, it doesn't feel the same anymore and it definatly feels like some sort of CSPROMOD Hybrid that's half updated and quite poor, bullets seem to dissapear, the walls shudder when moving your mouse sidewards into a wall (hard to explain via text, will also make a video of this!).

I have tested all these things in a LAN enviroment on professionally set up CS:S servers, with windows 7, windows xp, 120 hz monitors, crt & lcd, 75 hz, capped fps, uncapped fps, everything you can think of. When it comes to how my game feels I can be as you say maybe "OCD" and I notice a lot of things when they are wrong.

Another issue I have noticed the crosshairs the way they open/close changed drastically (ignoring the legacy commands) I'm talking the old crosshair's here. They just don't close correctly and I believe the fix for that would be to match the 1.6 Crosshairs.

Over the past year we've had many useless updates, not very well thought out updates and for example the de_inferno update was quite bad in some aspects.

It has also now been months that I provided proof of the bullets acting weird after a spray, video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1a-zf1DE9k&hd=1

This _IS_ fixed in the CSS beta but it hasn't been updated and it's been in the beta for months? Why can't they just update that ONE bug in the mean time which would be a 5 minute job.. HPE you were brought here to update the game but as others, you've got extremely lazy. I don't want to create this game suited for me at all, I want to help update the game for everyone. If people are blind to see my points and accept the game is ok then they lack braincells. The game is definatly not ok.

I've tried to tone down my attitude compared to my posts last time. But lets be fair, don't just post that the game is fine when everyone that says it is, complains anyway. I will try and provide proof where possible, but sometimes it's just so random.

Ambient Occlusion bug also needs fixing, the smokes though were the only good thing to come from the orangebox update.. I honestly believe the old engine was miles better than this one, all we needed added was multicore option, maybe an attempt at the interpolate fix (it was better then than it is now, so i'd choose the old engine over this one anyday) & the smokes. Map's should be created by the professionals not the HPE developers, or at least listen directly to the majority of the competitive community seeing as it would be BALANCED that way and would suit everyone not just us.

This will probably be pushed aside and many people will jump on the wagon to flame me but I really am not wrong with these things I've mentioned.

I've tried to come across as mature, and constructive & hopefully we can have a serious discussion. I will be posting this in CS:S beta forums also.

Thanks

Ritch

Update: **I have had no contact from HPE despite trying to reach them in virtually every single way possible**

I have also now just recorded myself on deathmatch with an AK & M4. I will go through the ticks eventually but for now, I want you guys to watch them (they're not TOO long) one is with an M4 and one with an AK - and if possible could YOU guys point out what you think I would be angry with in the demo's (registration, the way recoil just goes mental for no reason etc).

I am aware my aim is not perfect, no one's is. But I tried to actually make this as legit as possible for you to watch, it is too difficult to purposly try spray and kill someone etc, So I just played normally. I spray more with the M4 to demonstrate how the recoil just all of a sudden is in a normalish pattern then just teleports across my screen and starts pulling at my recoil control, somethihg which never happened in the old Source and definatly doesn't happen in CS 1.6.. The demos were recorded on a stable 20-30 ping on a standard 66 tick deathmatch server, everything I experience in this demo I experience on any server, whether it have 10 people in a match server or 50 in a public server. I had a constant 400+ fps & using lerp 15.2 (cl_interp 0, cl_cmdrate 66, cl_updaterate 66) ~ practically the same as every top css player. The link for the demos are below, please take some time to watch them. Thanks

http://www.mediafire.com/?b9wfak1fkoelqfd - Demo

[CPU1]

Pretty much.

[RetroFade]

I've read many of your posts Ritch, they all make sense, but you know that this will never happen. HPE have pretty much abandoned CSS at the moment and no significant updates will arrive anytime soon.

If they don't acknowledge these issues and fix them then I just don't see the point in the game existing, or at least roll back to the old CS:S and let us play that, I don't know - something needs to be done anyways..

[beef9205]

Wow ritch, thank you.

I actually read the whole thing, and when you put it in terms like this, in a calm and ordered manner, you are absolutely right.

I didnt like you before because of all the hate & butthurt you posted in between all of your (accurate) information.

It takes a mature person to do so.

for the record, I never disagreed with anything you said, it was just the way you said it.

+rep for you

Originally Posted by beef9205

Wow ritch, thank you.

I actually read the whole thing, and when you put it in terms like this, in a calm and ordered manner, you are absolutely right.

I didnt like you before because of all the hate & butthurt you posted in between all of your (accurate) information.

It takes a mature person to do so.

for the record, I never disagreed with anything you said, it was just the way you said it.

+rep for you

Thank you for that reply. I have spoken with a few other "professionals" too..namely aNGeldusT and he agree's with all my points apart from the "CSPROMOD" feel.. but that is basically obselete anyway, doesn't change much. Anyway, pass this thread this around to your mates, the only way anything can ever happen is if people actually stick together and try make something happen!

[Elevory]

You hit the nail on the head. It's good to know that it's not just me.

[Hector El Fathe]

One can only hope HPE or whoever might be updating CS:S in the future uses this information. Despite the hostile attitude and lack of evidence (for the least experienced players), your first attempt at this subject was just as valid as it is today, the game has had these real bugs from the start but they were overlooked for non-priority map updates and other miscellaneous things.

You might have a better chance this time around given that there's a lot less new user activity, and your suggestions might cater to the more experienced players that remain on these forums. But be aware regardless, not too long ago I voiced my opinion on how bad the current netcode is with the dying behind walls and bullets disappearing, and I was demanded "coding level" evidence of what changed, as these CS:S erudites could not find a difference between the old Source and OB Source.

Originally Posted by Hector El Fathe

One can only hope HPE or whoever might be updating CS:S in the future uses this information. Despite the hostile attitude and lack of evidence (for the least experienced players), your first attempt at this subject was just as valid as it is today, the game has had these real bugs from the start but they were overlooked for non-priority map updates and other miscellaneous things.

You might have a better chance this time around given that there's a lot less new user activity, and your suggestions might cater to the more experienced players that remain on these forums. But be aware regardless, not too long ago I voiced my opinion on how bad the current netcode is with the dying behind walls and bullets disappearing, and I was demanded "coding level" evidence of what changed, as these CS:S erudites could not find a difference between the old Source and OB Source.

Half the problem is these "newer" players and the "noobs" (no offense intended) they assume nothing is wrong and will also believe that code is correct etc.. but one of the most important things in a game when you sell the product is that it must run smoothly and the 'feel' must feel good. I'd say over 80% of people that have played both versions of Source agree that the game doesn't 'feel' correct anymore. There is a lot of things wrong with it. I'm happy with the response so far and I'm sure this will take sometime, but I wish HPE would work with me on this and we could have a much better game for everyone.. I'm not trying to "CHANGE" things i just want to fix things.

I have private messaged many of the staff which work for HPE. I have e-mailed and done a "ticket" contact form in their website. Tomorrow I will be writing to their US address until I get some answers and hopefully a reply! The only way to get things fixed is if I/we stick at it so all the support is appreciated!

[Mopquill]

I've played CS:S before, and the net code is what stopped me from buying it. I might be forced to reconsider if things actually get fixed.

There's little more frustrating in an FPS than performing as well as your screen will let you only to fail because the code is broken.

I fully support this effort, and I really hope it's successful. Best of luck.

[Zerolagy]

agree 100 percent ! this needs to be sorted

[LUNTE1337]

Great Post Ritch. Have to agree with #2 that when you speak calmly about this topic one can take the arguments better.

Hope it will be acknowledged.

[Ghost Dog]

This OB interp is a step backward, this is crap we used to have to put up with not now.

[HayzeMT]

+1 5char