A message to Valve regarding Team Fortress 2

Hindesite · 08-21-2011, 08:48 AM

I just watched Destructoid's interview with Valve's own Game Newell and thought it was very intriguing. As usual, I think his views on things are pretty on point, but he said something in the interview that made me wonder, and I posted a question for Valve in the comments of that Destructoid news post, but I also wanted to post it here for hopes Valve might see it.

I'd link to the interview for reference, but I don't want this post to be passed off as advertisement so if you want to see it yourself just head over to that site and search it.

This is about console version of Team Fortress 2, so though I know the PC is superior (believe me, I game on my PC a lot too) I think this is a pretty valid proposition, so please keep the "xbox suxx0rz!1!" comments at bay, fellow Valve fans.

Ok, my question to Valve:

You mentioned at around 7:20 into the interview how free to play for Team Fortress 2 was more successful then you expected because it increased the size of the community quite a bit, and given how community oriented the game is in turn made the game itself worth more as it created a better experience for everyone playing it.

Well, it's no news to anyone that TF2 hasn't been receiving the same updates on Xbox 360 that it has on PC because the community is so much smaller there, almost dead, infact. So why not release TF2 for free on Xbox Live Arcade, using the same micro-transactions system you have in place for the PC version, to boost the community there?

I can't say with certainty that this would be the outcome, but I believe you'd see a huge following appear on that platform if it became a F2P game, and I would be inclined to believe you'd see a profit off your efforts. Online console gamers are all about the DLC, I could see the large community I believe would form for the title buying quite a bit of content through the Mann Co. Store.

Thanks for listening, Valve!

Dax77 · 08-21-2011, 08:50 AM

Idk, I'd assume at least 80% of people that own an xbox also own a decent pc, would be pretty pointless.

Plus microsoft is a super greedy corporation..good luck with that.

MeBot · 08-21-2011, 08:51 AM

It's primarily due to the space limitations set by Microsoft, and any content updates like the class updates would be counted as DLC and would HAVE to be paid for, as per Microsoft's standards.

VALVe, not exactly willing to make it so that you have to pay for updates, just decided to keep the game vanilla.

Making the console TF2's F2P wouldn't be a great idea both because there is absolutely no money-making opportunities in it, and the fact that the only version of TF2 that actually still has an audience is the PC version. Even then, it would be difficult for them to efficiently implement the microtransaction system in a console environment.

xencreature · 08-21-2011, 08:52 AM

Link to the interview, please?

EDIT: nevermind, found it.

http://www.destructoid.com/valve-we-...--209473.phtml

Ailure · 08-21-2011, 08:52 AM

Apparently TF2 was pretty much barely optimized enough to run on X-box 360.

TF2 with all the current models and such would apparently be too much, which was their biggest hinderance so far (other than Microsoft's burecracy).

Rammite · 08-21-2011, 08:56 AM

Valve refuses to update the Xbox 360 TF2 because Microsoft is a greedy git.

Microsoft insist that every and all DLC's MUST have a price tag attached.

Valve outright refuses to release paid DLC. Even with the Mannconomy update and the promos, you can get everything game-changing by crfating and trading. Hell, the whole damn game is free DLC now.

EDIT: Remember that TF2's size has multipled by 6, so if Microsoft allows for the updating, they'd probably stick a $100 price tag on it.

Ataraxis420 · 08-21-2011, 09:06 AM

It's Microsoft you should adress, not Valve.

UnlikelyPotato · 08-21-2011, 09:16 AM

An Xbox can not run tf2 as it is. The game can easily use 1gb of system memory. The Xbox on the other hand has 256mb each for main and gpu. Not possible.

DrakenZA · 08-21-2011, 09:19 AM

Microsoft forces developers to make patches priced.

Valve would gladly keep ♥♥♥♥ on xbox up to date but they are not allowed to.

Hindesite · 08-21-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammite

Valve refuses to update the Xbox 360 TF2 because Microsoft is a greedy git.

Microsoft insist that every and all DLC's MUST have a price tag attached.

Valve outright refuses to release paid DLC. Even with the Mannconomy update and the promos, you can get everything game-changing by crfating and trading. Hell, the whole damn game is free DLC now.

This is true about Microsoft, they do have a policy where DLC of a certain nature must have a price tag attached, and an even higher price tag if it's DLC that adds new achievements to the game, but what you said about Valve is not true. With Left 4 Dead they released the updates as paid DLC at the minimum cost Microsoft would allow, given that the content added achievements, and those were free updates on the PC.

Hindesite · 08-21-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ataraxis420

It's Microsoft you should adress, not Valve.

Microsoft wont listen to reason. Valve will. I think it's better to voice my ideas to Valve then to try and battle with the beast. (Microsoft)

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlikelyPotato

An Xbox can not run tf2 as it is. The game can easily use 1gb of system memory. The Xbox on the other hand has 256mb each for main and gpu. Not possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakenZA

Microsoft forces developers to make patches priced.

Valve would gladly keep ♥♥♥♥ on xbox up to date but they are not allowed to.

I think if Valve were to re-optimize the game from scratch within the limitations of the system, with all updates included, in a standalone XBLA re-release of the game, even if for the minimum Microsoft would allow (probably 400MSP, or $5) that my proposition of it becoming a popular title on consoles still stands.

Releasing a paid DLC update to TF2 in The Orange Box may be impossible due to the size of the update and limitations of the current game engine on disk, but I don't see why they couldn't do it from scratch, released at as low as possible of a price, as a standalone title.

I propose this because I think it'd be both profitable for Valve and good for the community. It would take work, yes, but I believe it's a worthwhile venture for Valve to look into.

omega_grunt666 · 08-21-2011, 09:36 AM

Last time microsoft gave anyone something free was a cease and desist order. And since its them who pay the bandwidth bills for content hosting... Goodluck.

Though it would be pretty awesome.

Hindesite · 08-21-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega_grunt666

Last time microsoft gave anyone something free was a cease and desist order. And since its them who pay the bandwidth bills for content hosting... Goodluck.

Though it would be pretty awesome.

Well though I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft just forced them to at least put a $5 price tag to download the title, which I believe is the minimum for a full featured XBLA title, I wouldn't be surprised either if Valve could reason with them to allow the free release of the game for Microsoft getting a percentage of DLC sales instead.

To use the XBL architecture, when someone goes to buy an item from Mann Co. it'd have to bring up the XBL DLC list for the game with that item selected for pruchase, they couldn't just purchase it straight through Valve directly. It'd be really simple to have 20% (or whatever Microsoft is expecting) taken off the top of all sales to go to them while the rest goes to Valve. Step 3, profit?

Also, someone brought up a good point in the Destructoid discussion on the topic about PS3. Not only are the Playstation Network's regulations for game releases much more flexible, but Steam already has the existing Steamworks architecture designed for that system. Not only might they be able to release a revamped, standalone edition of TF2 on PSN for free, but they might even be able to have it integrate directly into Steam games, PS3/PC cross-platform gaming. Then there isn't even an issue of if the title being F2P on the system would be enough for it to gain profitable popularity, they'd just join right into the huge existing PC community for the game... and really, want PC gamer wouldn't like some noobs playing on a DualShock on their server for some easy kills? Amirite?!

netham45 · 08-21-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlikelyPotato

An Xbox can not run tf2 as it is. The game can easily use 1gb of system memory. The Xbox on the other hand has 256mb each for main and gpu. Not possible.

That's the PS3 you're thinking of, the Xbox has 512MB dynamically shared.

Mincegamer · 08-21-2011, 11:35 AM

I guess this thread was originally in the PC section?

08-21-2011, 08:48 AM	#1
Hindesite Join Date: Feb 2009 Reputation: 1 Posts: 107	A message to Valve regarding Team Fortress 2 I just watched Destructoid's interview with Valve's own Game Newell and thought it was very intriguing. As usual, I think his views on things are pretty on point, but he said something in the interview that made me wonder, and I posted a question for Valve in the comments of that Destructoid news post, but I also wanted to post it here for hopes Valve might see it. I'd link to the interview for reference, but I don't want this post to be passed off as advertisement so if you want to see it yourself just head over to that site and search it. This is about console version of Team Fortress 2, so though I know the PC is superior (believe me, I game on my PC a lot too) I think this is a pretty valid proposition, so please keep the "xbox suxx0rz!1!" comments at bay, fellow Valve fans. Ok, my question to Valve: You mentioned at around 7:20 into the interview how free to play for Team Fortress 2 was more successful then you expected because it increased the size of the community quite a bit, and given how community oriented the game is in turn made the game itself worth more as it created a better experience for everyone playing it. Well, it's no news to anyone that TF2 hasn't been receiving the same updates on Xbox 360 that it has on PC because the community is so much smaller there, almost dead, infact. So why not release TF2 for free on Xbox Live Arcade, using the same micro-transactions system you have in place for the PC version, to boost the community there? I can't say with certainty that this would be the outcome, but I believe you'd see a huge following appear on that platform if it became a F2P game, and I would be inclined to believe you'd see a profit off your efforts. Online console gamers are all about the DLC, I could see the large community I believe would form for the title buying quite a bit of content through the Mann Co. Store. Thanks for listening, Valve!

08-21-2011, 08:51 AM	#3
MeBot Join Date: Jul 2010 Reputation: 256 Posts: 1,789	It's primarily due to the space limitations set by Microsoft, and any content updates like the class updates would be counted as DLC and would HAVE to be paid for, as per Microsoft's standards. VALVe, not exactly willing to make it so that you have to pay for updates, just decided to keep the game vanilla. Making the console TF2's F2P wouldn't be a great idea both because there is absolutely no money-making opportunities in it, and the fact that the only version of TF2 that actually still has an audience is the PC version. Even then, it would be difficult for them to efficiently implement the microtransaction system in a console environment. Last edited by MeBot: 08-21-2011 at 08:54 AM.

08-21-2011, 08:52 AM	#4
xencreature Join Date: Sep 2010 Reputation: 67 Posts: 579	Link to the interview, please? EDIT: nevermind, found it. http://www.destructoid.com/valve-we-...--209473.phtml Last edited by xencreature: 08-21-2011 at 09:04 AM.

08-21-2011, 08:56 AM	#6
Rammite Join Date: Sep 2010 Reputation: 2505 Posts: 6,771	Valve refuses to update the Xbox 360 TF2 because Microsoft is a greedy git. Microsoft insist that every and all DLC's MUST have a price tag attached. Valve outright refuses to release paid DLC. Even with the Mannconomy update and the promos, you can get everything game-changing by crfating and trading. Hell, the whole damn game is free DLC now. EDIT: Remember that TF2's size has multipled *by 6, so if Microsoft allows for the updating, they'd probably stick a $100 price tag on it. Last edited by Rammite: 08-21-2011 at 09:08 AM.*

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08-21-2011, 08:50 AM	#2
Dax77 Join Date: Oct 2008 Reputation: 810 Posts: 5,179	Idk, I'd assume at least 80% of people that own an xbox also own a decent pc, would be pretty pointless. Plus microsoft is a super greedy corporation..good luck with that.

08-21-2011, 08:52 AM	#5
Ailure Join Date: Apr 2008 Reputation: 68 Posts: 872	Apparently TF2 was pretty much barely optimized enough to run on X-box 360. TF2 with all the current models and such would apparently be too much, which was their biggest hinderance so far (other than Microsoft's burecracy).

08-21-2011, 09:06 AM	#7
Ataraxis420 Join Date: Jul 2011 Reputation: 94 Posts: 620	It's Microsoft you should adress, not Valve.

08-21-2011, 09:16 AM	#8
UnlikelyPotato Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 90 Posts: 207	An Xbox can not run tf2 as it is. The game can easily use 1gb of system memory. The Xbox on the other hand has 256mb each for main and gpu. Not possible.

08-21-2011, 09:19 AM	#9
DrakenZA Join Date: Feb 2009 Reputation: 68 Posts: 855	Microsoft forces developers to make patches priced. Valve would gladly keep ♥♥♥♥ on xbox up to date but they are not allowed to.

08-21-2011, 09:36 AM	#12
omega_grunt666 Join Date: Sep 2009 Reputation: 178 Posts: 1,181	Last time microsoft gave anyone something free was a cease and desist order. And since its them who pay the bandwidth bills for content hosting... Goodluck. Though it would be pretty awesome.

08-21-2011, 11:35 AM	#15
Mincegamer Join Date: Mar 2011 Reputation: 208 Posts: 643	I guess this thread was originally in the PC section?