A message to Valve regarding Team Fortress 2

[Hindesite]

Originally Posted by Mincegamer

I guess this thread was originally in the PC section?

Yeah, it was. Whoops. I didn't realize there was console forums even on here. My bad.

[Chill Dude]

Free arcade version...

They wont give us free updates, let alone a free arcade version.

Next you should ask if microsoft can give away some free microsoft points and xbox live to everyone.

[KKiONI]

As Team Fortress ages I've noticed how more impractical it will become to keep it on par or close to the PC version.
The updates are becoming much more frequent, many of which contain new content now. Keeping up with all these updates would follow by a hefty price tag for Valve. It's easier on the PC since they manage their own marketing system for their updates, as opposed to the Xbox 360 since they have to go through Microsoft and get the green light.
Now I am not saying it's impossible though. I still think there's a way. If Valve could release TF2 on the XBL Arcade at some sort of manageable price that refers to an outside, non-Microsoft server for all game updates (kind of like what I heard about with Super Meat Boy), then it could be kept up to date. The only problem is that could be (and I bet you is) some sort of breach of contract.

I could see it working if it didn't break any rules. Updates would be downloaded from one of Valves servers and applied to the game. The game could come with all the achievements from the "General" tab from the PC and the remaining ones would be available only in the game (i.e. not part of Microsoft's achievement system).
As for the Mann CO. Store, there could be many ways to approach this, but all of which provide some iffy consequence.

With all that said, Valve also has to consider the price of such a project VS. how much more revenue this will actually draw in.

[Hindesite]

Originally Posted by KKiONI

As Team Fortress ages I've noticed how more impractical it will become to keep it on par or close to the PC version.
The updates are becoming much more frequent, many of which contain new content now. Keeping up with all these updates would follow by a hefty price tag for Valve. It's easier on the PC since they manage their own marketing system for their updates, as opposed to the Xbox 360 since they have to go through Microsoft and get the green light.
Now I am not saying it's impossible though. I still think there's a way. If Valve could release TF2 on the XBL Arcade at some sort of manageable price that refers to an outside, non-Microsoft server for all game updates (kind of like what I heard about with Super Meat Boy), then it could be kept up to date. The only problem is that could be (and I bet you is) some sort of breach of contract.

I could see it working if it didn't break any rules. Updates would be downloaded from one of Valves servers and applied to the game. The game could come with all the achievements from the "General" tab from the PC and the remaining ones would be available only in the game (i.e. not part of Microsoft's achievement system).
As for the Mann CO. Store, there could be many ways to approach this, but all of which provide some iffy consequence.

With all that said, Valve also has to consider the price of such a project VS. how much more revenue this will actually draw in.

Unfortunately, I don't think Microsoft will ever allow a developer to have their online portion of the game run through a network other then Xbox Live. It's part of the reason why PS3 has Steamworks in Portal 2 and 360 doesn't.

That said, I'm sure there's got to be something Valve can do. If TF2 is as successful as a F2P title on PC as Valve claims, they've gotta be able to convince Microsoft to bend some rules somehow. I'm sure there's some way Valve can make it in Microsoft's best interests to allow them to do so, too.

Originally Posted by Chill Dude

Free arcade version...

They wont give us free updates, let alone a free arcade version.

Next you should ask if microsoft can give away some free microsoft points and xbox live to everyone.

Um, this isn't really comparable to free Xbox Live points or free Xbox Live subscriptions.

Free to play games get their revenue from micro-transactions in the game. In this case, through Team Fortress 2's Mann Co. store where you can buy new weapons, hats, etc. In the case of TF2, it's very profitable too, Valve has said. The reported that they're making more money off TF2 now that it's F2P then before you actually had to pay for the game.

If Microsoft made a percentage of the profits from each micro-transaction, I see no reason why it wouldn't be in their best interests to allow F2P titles like TF2 on Xbox Live.

[Chill Dude]

Originally Posted by Hindesite

Um, this isn't really comparable to free Xbox Live points or free Xbox Live subscriptions.

Free to play games get their revenue from micro-transactions in the game. In this case, through Team Fortress 2's Mann Co. store where you can buy new weapons, hats, etc. In the case of TF2, it's very profitable too, Valve has said. The reported that they're making more money off TF2 now that it's F2P then before you actually had to pay for the game.

If Microsoft made a percentage of the profits from each micro-transaction, I see no reason why it wouldn't be in their best interests to allow F2P titles like TF2 on Xbox Live.

Not saying that you said anything like that.

but in microsofts eyes you might as well be asking the same question.

Although, the idea of TF2 being released as a standalone arcade game for somewhere around $15 would be a fantastic idea. This could bring alot of revenue , which in turn could be put toward actually updating the game some what.

At the end of the day though these are just ideas put forth by a community of players completely abondoned by the developers.

"Adressing the mann co store idea. This is completely impossible. When I talk about updates I talk about only the simple mandatory things. There will never be a mann co store for TF2 unless they released a brand new $60 game with everything in it already. There is hardly enough space for things like upgradeable sentrys or glitch fixes etc let alone something as massive as the mann co store and back packs etc .

[Hindesite]

Originally Posted by Chill Dude

Adressing the mann co store idea. This is completely impossible. When I talk about update I talk about only the simple mandatory things. There will never be a mann co store for TF2 unless they released a brand new $60 game with everything in it already. There is hardly enough space for things like upgradeable sentrys or glitch fixes etc let alone something as massive as the mann co store and back packs etc .

Ummm, why couldn't they do that in an Xbox Live Arcade release of the game? I just checked my TF2 properties in Steam and it says it's 7GBs. Now I have never downloaded a game that big through Xbox Live but I HAVE definitely downloaded games in the multiple gigabytes of size before and it's already known that they're going to have to scale down and rework this game for 360 as it is... so who's to say they can't get a working version of Mann Co. in it? I'm inclined to think it's possible, with effort... maybe they should contact Aperture Science about it?

[Chill Dude]

Originally Posted by Hindesite

Ummm, why couldn't they do that in an Xbox Live Arcade release of the game? I just checked my TF2 properties in Steam and it says it's 7GBs. Now I have never downloaded a game that big through Xbox Live but I HAVE definitely downloaded games in the multiple gigabytes of size before and it's already known that they're going to have to scale down and rework this game for 360 as it is... so who's to say they can't get a working version of Mann Co. in it? I'm inclined to think it's possible, with effort... maybe they should contact Aperture Science about it?

Seeing as how the orange box is already about 7 gigs , not sure how there gonna shove another 5 gigs into it.

As for arcade game idea, I like it. Really its the only possible path if they were going to add everything. But a giant problem sits with that. What happens to everyone who already purchased the orange box? Screwed over and forced to rebuy the game? A strange dilemmia.

The entire situation lies within Valve's decision to ship TF2 in the orange box. A stupid idea on Valve's part honestly. But I honestly doubt they knew it would become this big, this different from the alpha stage.

[Hindesite]

Originally Posted by Chill Dude

Seeing as how the orange box is already about 7 gigs , not sure how there gonna shove another 5 gigs into it.

As for arcade game idea, I like it. Really its the only possible path if they were going to add everything. But a giant problem sits with that. What happens to everyone who already purchased the orange box? Screwed over and forced to rebuy the game? A strange dilemmia.

Whoa, slow down here a second. I'm talking about how Valve said Team Fortress 2 is more popular then ever since it became Free 2 Play and is actually making them even more money then it did before. Given those facts, I'm saying I think a F2P standalone release of TF2 on XBLA could have similar results. I believe it would gain a huge following and that people would buy content off the in-game store.

Patching The Orange Box with these updates isn't really the main point I was trying to get to making this thread. It seems highly difficult and maybe even impossible to do considering how drastically the game has changed since then. So there's no argument there from me on that topic and I never was trying to say otherwise.

Go take a look at the interview, it's linked on the first page of this thread a couple posts down. Shortly after the 7 minute mark he starts talking about how TF2 being F2P now has been a huge success, and I'm saying they should make it happen on Xbox, too!

EDIT:
Just to make sure where on the same page here, when I mention Free 2 Play I mean games that don't cost anything to download and play. So if, say, magically my idea came true, The Orange Box purchasers wouldn't be getting screwed because they don't have to pay for the new release.

[Chill Dude]

Originally Posted by Hindesite

Whoa, slow down here a second. I'm talking about how Valve said Team Fortress 2 is more popular then ever since it became Free 2 Play and is actually making them even more money then it did before. Given those facts, I'm saying I think a F2P standalone release of TF2 on XBLA could have similar results. I believe it would gain a huge following and that people would buy content off the in-game store.

Patching The Orange Box with these updates isn't really the main point I was trying to get to making this thread. It seems highly difficult and maybe even impossible to do considering how drastically the game has changed since then. So there's no argument there from me on that topic and I never was trying to say otherwise.

Go take a look at the interview, it's linked on the first page of this thread a couple posts down. Shortly after the 7 minute mark he starts talking about how TF2 being F2P now has been a huge success, and I'm saying they should make it happen on Xbox, too!

Well one could hope. But at this point this seems more possible on PS3 because of steam works etc. Then again, both the Xbox and Ps3 are incapable of running most of the maps on PC , unless they were completely redone for the system. I do not own a PS3 so I dont really like that idea .

EDIT: yes I understand the free idea.

[rickinator9]

Valve would be wise to make it free. We just don't need the new content. 50% of that content is useless and doesn't add that much to the game. We would only need the bugfixes and the new maps.

[Liam_Hillman]

I hope they just release TF2 on a standalone disc. It will include all of the class updates and just them (no hats yay) . We've got to think realisticly here, and I think this is the only thing we can get.

[Mincegamer]

Originally Posted by Liam_Hillman

I hope they just release TF2 on a standalone disc. It will include all of the class updates and just them (no hats yay) . We've got to think realisticly here, and I think this is the only thing we can get.

This, why can't they do this?

[KKiONI]

Originally Posted by Mincegamer

This, why can't they do this?

They could of done that... before the F2P update. Reason to this is many people would have the "Why do I have to pay for this when I could get it for free on the PC" mentality.
You may say no way, but that's because we're all just dedicated enough TF2 fans.
They could provide premium accounts automatically plus some sort of item, but not everyone will be dazzled by that bonus.

Originally Posted by Hindesite

Unfortunately, I don't think Microsoft will ever allow a developer to have their online portion of the game run through a network other then Xbox Live. It's part of the reason why PS3 has Steamworks in Portal 2 and 360 doesn't.

That said, I'm sure there's got to be something Valve can do. If TF2 is as successful as a F2P title on PC as Valve claims, they've gotta be able to convince Microsoft to bend some rules somehow. I'm sure there's some way Valve can make it in Microsoft's best interests to allow them to do so, too.

Yeah I had a feeling that would be the case. Microsoft is really defensive when it comes to keeping their online system a closed experience.

[Liam_Hillman]

From my extensive research, TF2 would never come to Xbox Live Arcade. All of the available games there are usually 500MB - 1GB, and as far as I'm aware, TF2 is about 13GB currently. Unless they decide to release it as a Games on Demand version or on standalone disc, then we're probably not going to get anything. Though downgrading it and just keeping the class updates will be perfect. Valve made a promise for this community, and doing this will bring nothing but positive news. They'll be getting more money and have a wider community. The people who are like "Free on PC? WHY NOT ON XBOX?" should be happy they could get an updated game at a reasonable price.

[Rodney Swan]

Originally Posted by Liam_Hillman

From my extensive research, TF2 would never come to Xbox Live Arcade. All of the available games there are usually 500MB - 1GB, and as far as I'm aware, TF2 is about 13GB currently. Unless they decide to release it as a Games on Demand version or on standalone disc, then we're probably not going to get anything. Though downgrading it and just keeping the class updates will be perfect. Valve made a promise for this community, and doing this will bring nothing but positive news. They'll be getting more money and have a wider community. The people who are like "Free on PC? WHY NOT ON XBOX?" should be happy they could get an updated game at a reasonable price.

Valve promised nothing.