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Old 09-22-2011, 02:12 AM   #1
oldbrokenlink
 
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calling all modders / mappers need help recreating Battle of Kursk for RO2

calling all modders / mappers need help recreating Battle of Kursk for RO2

as you may have seen i've been doing my homework

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2131350

and i'm posting this to ask for your help.

i can't do it alone, but with you help i'm confident we can do an authentic recreation of the Battle of Kursk within the limitations of the technology for all of us to play and enjoy

i'm looking for big maps with lots of tanks that look good to bring the battle and action to life

what i'm looking for is members with the skills to pull this off

so please enlist today. the sdk is soon to be release and i want us all to be ready to run with it.

cheers!

Last edited by oldbrokenlink: 09-22-2011 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:49 AM   #2
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Good luck, it was fought over a huge front (like 50 miles) and the German side has an pretty much impossible task against massive, preprepared defenses. You'd have to create anti-tank guns, as well, because that was the backbone of the Russian defense. You may want to find a well-documented clash of tanks during the battle (maybe battalion-sized) and concentrate on that. While it's always referred to as the greatest tank battle of all time, it was really a combined arms operation on both sides, and the Russian defense concentrated on tank barriers, minefields, heavily fortified anti-tank positions, and massive pre-sighted artillery zones. The tanks were basically meant as a mobile defensive force for counter-attacks, except for the tanks that were dug-in, Iraqi-style.

So, hopefully you can find that clash between maybe 50 or less total tanks. Good luck, sounds like fun.

Last edited by stahlhelmii: 09-22-2011 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:52 AM   #3
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very good post thanks you

gives me stuff to think about

i've ordered from netflix a number of documentaries on battle of kursk and i've identified some more on youtube which i will post links to for interested parties to watch.

i was hoping to start with doing the maps with currently available ingame assets and quickly get something out for people to play with, god knows we need some good huge tank maps, and then expand from there.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:49 AM   #4
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ok the first release will use the assets that come with ro2 and sdk

but from my research the real battle of kursk

please note the following is way incomplete. i'm beginnging my research so as i find something i add it. i'm no expert so i can overlook something easily cause i dont recognize what it is and google may not find a match for the abbrieviation in some report i can barely understand. for example a lot of times they put Pz for Panzer. so when you read the report you have to take the abbrivation and find out wtf they are talking about is it a unit or a vehicle or are they refering to some individual rank, i've never been in military and its very hard to read even when translated to english.

Germans:
Soviets:
* air not included for now to focus on the tanks and at

additionally:

german and soviet air available in 1943
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/obair.htm

german and soviet ground available in 1943
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/afv.htm

Last edited by oldbrokenlink: 09-23-2011 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:08 PM   #5
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so Kursk looks to be the biggest tank battle of eastern front.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

google even says so

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-a...w=1291&bih=877

wikipedia gives us this nice map/diagram of order of operations

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._%28map%29.jpg

we have some nice pictures
http://ww2-pictures.com/kursk-battle-pictures.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...og&sa=N&tab=wi

some history
http://mini-history.blogspot.com/201...urst-1943.html
http://www.soviethistory.org/index.p...ursk&Year=1943
http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/Bat...ttleskursk.htm

some more goodies

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/sho...tle-in-history
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaw...es/kursk43.htm

we have lots of maps
http://www.google.com/search?pq=batt...og&sa=N&tab=wi

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...og&sa=N&tab=wi

hit the jackpot

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/

google earth
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<kml xmlns="http://www.opengis.net/kml/2.2" xmlns:gx="http://www.google.com/kml/ext/2.2" xmlns:kml="http://www.opengis.net/kml/2.2" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
<Placemark>
	<name>Battle of Kursk, Kurskaya oblast, Russia</name>
	<address>Battle of Kursk, Kurskaya oblast, Russia</address>
	<Snippet maxLines="2"><![CDATA[<br/>]]></Snippet>
	<LookAt>
		<longitude>36.051389</longitude>
		<latitude>51.501111</latitude>
		<altitude>0</altitude>
		<heading>0</heading>
		<tilt>0</tilt>
		<range>14497.475586</range>
	</LookAt>
	<StyleMap>
		<Pair>
			<key>normal</key>
			<Style>
				<IconStyle>
					<Icon>
						<href>http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/kml/pal3/icon60.png</href>
					</Icon>
				</IconStyle>
			</Style>
		</Pair>
		<Pair>
			<key>highlight</key>
			<Style>
				<IconStyle>
					<scale>1.3</scale>
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						<href>http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/kml/pal3/icon52.png</href>
					</Icon>
				</IconStyle>
			</Style>
		</Pair>
	</StyleMap>
	<Point>
		<coordinates>36.051389,51.501111,0</coordinates>
	</Point>
</Placemark>
</kml>

Last edited by oldbrokenlink: 09-24-2011 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
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To repeat... you know who that is... ?

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Old 09-23-2011, 04:50 PM   #7
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To repeat... you know who that is... ?
Is.. you... sir?
Very web-retro.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:55 PM   #8
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To repeat... you know who that is... ?
© Alan Wilson 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 Last update: 6/2/00 10:58:18 PMM GMT

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Old 09-23-2011, 05:14 PM   #9
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I'd definitely be interested in something like this. Not keen on mapping, but i can sure as hell model some custom objects if needed. PM me and let me know if your going ahead with this.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:40 PM   #10
oldbrokenlink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilsonam View Post
To repeat... you know who that is... ?
i didn't know, found it by accident while surfing google results

i owe you a world of thanks

this not only benefits what i'm doing but everyone interested in the subject.

it's value cannot be messured. there is so much there all in english down to unit daily narratives. i cannot imagine just how much of an effort you put in gathering all this information

take care
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter88 View Post
I'd definitely be interested in something like this. Not keen on mapping, but i can sure as hell model some custom objects if needed. PM me and let me know if your going ahead with this.
i can't model a thing, but i can work on maps. sure could use help getting battle of kursk out. i also have to learn the ro ur editor, i'm more used to dice's bf series map editor and sdk. going through youtube tutorials right now and playing with ro2 sdk. looks easy enough, just so much there, a world more complex then the old bf42 editor
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:46 PM   #12
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list of assets found in ro1 posting for BoK
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...88&postcount=7

Quote:
This table is a list of German AFV available in July 1943, with details of the gun mounted and armour. Some of the older models were already obsolete... Please go through the detail below, and e-mail me with any comments - especially if you don't agree with the data !
German AFVs:
AFV Main Gun Armour Notes
Bore/Type Calibre Min (mm) Max (mm)
Tanks:
Pz Jg I 4.7cm PaK (t) L/43.4 6 14.5 Czech 4.7cm AT on PzIB Chassis
Pz II F 2cm KwK 30 L/55 5 35
Marder II 7.5cm PaK 40/2 L/43 5 35 Pz II Chassis
Pz III J 5cm KwK 38 L/42 10 50
Pz III J/1 5cm KwK 39 L/60 10 50
Pz III L 5cm KwK 39 L/60 10 57
Pz III M 5cm KwK 39 L/60 10 57
Pz III N 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 10 57
Pz III Flamm 14mm Flamethrower 10 57 with 6, 11Pz Div, GD
Pz IV D 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 10 35
Pz IV E 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 10 50
Pz IV F 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 10 50
Pz IV F2 7.5cm KwK 40 L/43 10 50
Pz IV G 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48 10 50
Pz IV H 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48 10 80
Pz V D 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70 16 100 Panther D
Pz VI E 8.8cm KwK 36 L/56 25 110 Tiger I
Assault Guns/TD:
StuG III B 7.5cm StuK 37 L/24 11 50
StuG III E 7.5cm StuK 37 L/24 17 50
StuG III F 7.5cm StuK 40 L/43 11 50
StuG III F/8 7.5cm StuK 40 L/48 11 50
StuG III G 7.5cm StuK 40 L/48 11 50
StuH 42 10.5cm StuH 42 L/28 11 50
Marder III (t) H 7.5cm PaK 40/3 L/48 8 50 Pz 38(t) H Chassis
Marder III (t) M 7.5cm PaK 40/3 L/48 8 15 Pz 38(t) M Chassis
SturmPz IV 15cm StuH 43 L/12 10 100 Brummbar; w 216 StPzAbt
Pz Jg III/IV 8.8cm PaK 43/1 L/71 10 30 Hornisse/Nashorn
Pz Jg VI 8.8cm PaK 43/2 L/71 30 200 Ferdinand/Elefant


Russian tanks

Bore/Type Calibre Min (mm) Max (mm)
Tanks:
T-60 M40 20mm TNSh L/107 7 20
T-60 M42 20mm TNSh L/107 7 35
T-70 45mm M38 L/46 10 60
T-34 M41 76.2mm F-34 L/42.5 20 52
T-34 M42 76.2mm F-34 L/42.5 20 65
T-34 M43 76.2mm F-34 L/42.5 20 70
KV1 M41 76.2mm F-34 L/42.5 30 90
KV1 M42 76.2mm ZiS-5 L/42.5 20 130
KV1S M42 76.2mm ZiS-5 L/42.5 30 80
KV3 85mm F-39 L/54.6 30 100
Churchill III/IV British 6pdr (57mm) L/40 20 120
M3 Grant US 75mm M2 15 50 "The coffin for 7 brothers"
TDs:
SU76-M 76.2mm ZiS-3 L/30.5 10 35 "Suka" - *****
SU-122 122mm M-30s L/22.7 20 45
SU-152 152mm ML-20s L/28.8 30 60 "Zvierboy"
source:
http://www.vy75.dial.pipex.com/

Last edited by oldbrokenlink: 09-23-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:11 AM   #13
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after doing more research reading the biggest tank battle withing the biggest tank battle and the first map in the Battle of Kursk that I plan to do is

"Tank Battle at Prokhorovka"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...a#cite_note-12

youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awRhSozctvs

interesting:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaw...rokhorovka.htm
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/kursk/kursk.html

maps:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaw...tm#Prokhorovka
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/maps.htm

Last edited by oldbrokenlink: 09-26-2011 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:21 AM   #14
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good luck with this mate,
i cant really do anything to help you out
but hope other ppl can do something
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:15 AM   #15
oldbrokenlink
 
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Kewp thanks.

everyone can pitch, i don't just need models and help creating the map i also need members to test the map, to provide feedback and ideas and to host the map and to play the map, ect. everyone is welcomed to do as much and as little as they can, every little bit helps us to do a better job.
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