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Old 11-01-2011, 10:46 PM   #151
Chiatroll
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by VintageFortress View Post
Doesn't it seem just weird to you though? A chef in a kitchen wouldn't serve you the food you ordered if they ran out, or try to serve you something else without you noticing. No they'd tell the wait staff to have you order something else or come back when they have more of what you ordered.
Generally, cooking a meal doesn't cost such a huge amount that not putting a the single meal out on time won't drive a company out of business and if someone does "just order something else" it takes ten minutes or so to make instead of years.

The problem with your examples would be scope.

Have any of the complainers ever worked in the video game industry or know someone who does?

Sometimes people have to make a hard choice between releasing a ed up product or not releasing a damn thing ever again.

Let me bring your kitchen metaphor to the context of the game industry.

Imagine you wanted steak and if making the steak you want costed hundreds of thousand dollars (which is estimating SotS2 to be very cheap) and it took years to cook it how you want to eat it. The meal wasn't done yet and the kitchen is running out of money to keep the staff going so they can can continue to prepare your steak.

Are they going to give you a nasty steak you can begin chewing now but will get better as you spend the next few months taking bites of it until one day it tastes awesome. Or will they go out of business and you won't get steaks ever and the kitchen staff that love their job can join the jobless instead of doing what they love.

Now isn't that a really weird place to eat?

Last edited by Chiatroll: 11-02-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:51 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Cubia View Post
You.

Pipe down, or shove off.

You can have your opinions, but that doesnt mean you need to shout at anyone else, or generally be a giant, blazing jackass.

If you need to call people "sheep fanbois", (whatever that even is) in order to make yourself feel big and good, hey, whatever. But do it somewhere else, not on these forums. Go find some other already-flame-filled forum to do this on.

You have problems with the game, how it was released, how things were done? Guess what?

YOU STILL HAVE NO ROOM TO COMPLAIN.

Why's that?

Well, it's pretty simple, for anyone with more than half of a working braincell.

first of all, if you're into PC games *whatsoever*, you should have seen this sort of thing before. Probably REALLY OFTEN. This kind of crap HAPPENS. You can scream about it all you want, but it HAPPENS, and there's exactly squat you can do about it.

Second, if you know ANYTHING about this industry... and it's *very* clear to me that you know NOTHING... you'd know that there's about 10 bazillionty ways that crazy errors like this can take place with ANY developer, and a screwed up release like this can happen. You think THIS is the worst of them? Hahahahahaaaaaaa..... no. No. Not even remotely close. Specifically though, you'd also know that this has nothing to do with the developers being "stupid" or bad at their jobs; even the most amazing, coordinated dev teams can crap out big mistakes like this.

Third.... and here's the tricky bit... YOU SHOULD HAVE RESEARCHED BEFORE LEAPING INTO A PURCHASE. This is PC gaming. As I said in my "first" point, this crap HAPPENS, and it happens OFTEN. You could have waited a mere 5 days or so, and then gone onto various forums and such and looked and seen what people were saying about the game. You could have noticed "Well, hey... all of these people are complaining about massive bugs! I suppose I should hold my money for now, that'd be the smart move!". Instead you went "HERPDERP HERE JUST TAKE ME DOLLARS!!!111" and threw a wad of cash at it. Despite the whole "PC games can be ridiculously buggy at launch" bit. Which is obvious to most PC gamers. Just SLIGHT patience would have saved you that trouble. *YOU* screwed up in this aspect, not the devs. YOU.

Yes, the devs made a mistake. Yelling at them and such wont fix it though, and YOU should have thought a little harder (or in your case, just plain thought at all) and not bought the game right away.

But most importantly... dont leap at someone else's throat on a forum like this simply because YOU are annoyed about YOUR bloody stupid mistake. They did nothing to you. It seems like they were just trying to make a logical point. But you still went "ARRRRGHHHHH NERDRAGE" and threw insults and flames at them. That is not right. CALM DOWN. And go find something else to do. There's no call for that sort of crap.

Feel free to respond to this post with more "AAAAROAIG)HG NERDRAGE GRAAAAGHHHHH", but I wont bother reading it, so you'll just be screaming at a wall.

Good day to you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Seriously, calm down fanboi. You are obviously clueless so stop talking about things you know nothing about.
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:23 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Cubia View Post
Hammer Legion Member bleating
people have every right to vent their frustrations after being analy penetrated like they have by this dev/publisher, regardless to how uncomfortable that makes you feel. just because this happens often doesn't change this one bit. in fact, it's all the more reason to complain more and longer as this kind of thing is 100% unacceptable.

we're not talking about a poor port or dissapointment about features not being implemented people hoped for... this is an illegal "beat and switch" and only bleating take that like laying down.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:05 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by killkhan View Post
I don't play this game, but I, as have most other PC gamers, have heard through the grape vine what a complete and utter mess this release was so I just had to come and check the forums to see what was being said about it.

I stumbled onto this OP, and I must say that I'm very impressed with the letter of apology from this guy. This sort of apology is few and far between for the countless, half finsihed releases for PC in recent times and I think it should be commended. If I was a fan of the series I would most certainly have calmed down and got behind the the guy, in fact, it's such a humble, non egotistical and selfless letter of apology that the series may well have got another fan (myself) and I'm seriously considering buying it (when it's fixed of course) at a later date. So well done (sort of) for admitting mistakes and taking responsibility, which is all to rare in todays climate.

I think a few other devs could well take a leaf out of this guys book (obviously not the terrible release) and follow suit. They would get a lot more respect around the community.

That's all.
uh no. Taking responsibility would have been telling the publishers that the game was not going to be done on time and would have to be delayed.

This is passing your problems on to your customers and then pretending like it was some big mistake.

What was done was intentional and wrong. This apology doesn't make up for it.

Responsibility? hah. Passed the buck until it was safe to say yeah, my bad.

Take this section
Quote:
If you truely feel like you have been dumped into an unannounced beta test on this game, then please, I ask you to put the game away and not look at it till someone fires off the "all done" flag. I am not going to tell you that you should not feel this way. What I am going to say is that if you feel this way then you should not feel victimized any more than if you had made a pre-order and then been informed of a delay. I know this does not make it all right but at least it should make it clear that no one wants to use you as a beta tester nor was that ever the intent.
This just strikes me as arrogant. The idea that if you feel screwed over you should just put the game away and wait until we say it's okay.

So basically, we don't care. Live with it.

The idea that this is somehow equivalent to a preorder getting delayed is ridiculous. If they announced a delay then I could decide whether I want to just cancel the order with steam and get a refund or I want to wait. This would have been preferable. Instead if I want to get my money back I have to go and start sending out emails. Ridiculous.

and they don't intend to use us as beta testers? Wow, that totally makes me feel better. I mean, I got sold a shoddy unfinished product but at least I'm not expected to help improve it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:15 AM   #155
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I kinda like it the way it is. I love testing games and watch them come into the game I want now I get to watch my fav game do that
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:51 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Cubia View Post
Feel free to respond to this post with more "AAAAROAIG)HG NERDRAGE GRAAAAGHHHHH", but I wont bother reading it, so you'll just be screaming at a wall.
Lies.

You know you'll read anything negative and respond to it. It's the way of things.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:02 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Cubia View Post
You.



Yes, the devs made a mistake. Yelling at them and such wont fix it though, and YOU should have thought a little harder (or in your case, just plain thought at all) and not bought the game right away.

.
Actually, yes, yelling at the devs will see some action done, at least preventative action. At a point of purchase, such as Steam, one should not have to "think good and hard" about what they could be getting into. This is merely purchasing a video game, and not breaking into someone's house in the middle of the night. There should be very little risk, as a consumer, to not get ripped-off. I thank God that Kerberos only makes video games and not, say, something like Big Macs. Whew! That would be salmonella city.

But hey, you should have thought about that before eating dinner at Kerberos Burger!!! Damn them! That'll teach you! Nyaaahh!
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:07 PM   #158
VintageFortress
 
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Originally Posted by Chiatroll View Post
Generally, cooking a meal doesn't cost such a huge amount that not putting a the single meal out on time won't drive a company out of business and if someone does "just order something else" it takes ten minutes or so to make instead of years.

The problem with your examples would be scope.

Have any of the complainers ever worked in the video game industry or know someone who does?

Sometimes people have to make a hard choice between releasing a ed up product or not releasing a damn thing ever again.

Let me bring your kitchen metaphor to the context of the game industry.

Imagine you wanted steak and if making the steak you want costed hundreds of thousand dollars (which is estimating SotS2 to be very cheap) and it took years to cook it how you want to eat it. The meal wasn't done yet and the kitchen is running out of money to keep the staff going so they can can continue to prepare your steak.

Are they going to give you a nasty steak you can begin chewing now but will get better as you spend the next few months taking bites of it until one day it tastes awesome. Or will they go out of business and you won't get steaks ever and the kitchen staff that love their job can join the jobless instead of doing what they love.

Now isn't that a really weird place to eat?
That actually made a whole lot of sense. Thanks for the teaspoon of enlightenment.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #159
Chiatroll
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by VintageFortress View Post
That actually made a whole lot of sense. Thanks for the teaspoon of enlightenment.
I'm totally confused because it makes sense to me when I read it over but I read over this topic and everyone is yelling at everyone. Did someone actually agree with something I said or was it sarcasm going over my head?

Sometimes things make sense when I read them but to everyone else it's gibberish blathered by an man with a poor grasp of the language he is using.

I don't mean this to be rude. It's awesome if I actually said something worthwhile.

Last edited by Chiatroll: 11-02-2011 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 02:36 PM   #160
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I swear I would never eat at Kerberos diner, way way too weird.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:27 PM   #161
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This is the most honesty I have seen out of any gaming industry company in a very long time. It is a sincere and strait forward letter. I think this CEO has the right attitude and this gives the industry a breath of fresh air. There need to be more people in the industry out there like him.

Having said that I don't think that excuses the state in which the game was released, but at least it is an attempt at some sort of amends.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:39 PM   #162
tyrrin
 
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Originally Posted by Rage-Overkill View Post
This is the most honesty I have seen out of any gaming industry company in a very long time. It is a sincere and strait forward letter. I think this CEO has the right attitude and this gives the industry a breath of fresh air. There need to be more people in the industry out there like him.

Having said that I don't think that excuses the state in which the game was released, but at least it is an attempt at some sort of amends.
No my friend, HONESTY would have been divulging the clear fact that the game was a pile of garbage from the onset, not waiting until his company was caught with its pants down and back tracking. Honesty would have been telling his customers that the game was hosed before we bought it and became stuck with a broken beta.

Last edited by tyrrin: 11-02-2011 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:37 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Rage-Overkill View Post
There need to be more people in the industry out there like him.
We need MORE developers like this? I have to disagree with you there, that statement is definitely one of the more surprising things I have seen on this board.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:43 PM   #164
Chiatroll
 
 
 
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We need MORE developers like this? I have to disagree with you there, that statement is definitely one of the more surprising things I have seen on this board.
Would you prefer when they release an unfinished product they act like the AAA publishers tend to do and release a statement saying "working as intended"? That unfortunately is the current norm for a bad release. Bad released WILL HAPPEN. Nothing short of a miracle will stop them from ever happening. Yes, Kerberos is a developer not a publisher, but normally these statements come from a publisher and the publisher normally says the equivalence of "LOLWUTROLF" except for rare cases like square's constant apologizing for the recent final fantasy MMO.

It's a bad release. It was a deal. Bad decisions happened down the line no doubt. The reason he doesn't go into why in his statement and this is said in the beginning. This letter is about about saying what they are going to do about it.

The problem is video games are a hard almost impossible industry especially at the smaller level. Small companies go out of business left and right. Sometimes you make a few mistakes down the line and you only choice is a deal for everyone and thats just how you stay in business.

I'm in no way saying things went well. I doubt think any reasonable intelligent being would say things went well. I'm just saying they aren't satan worshipping psychopaths who want to laugh at their customers misfortune. Also small gave developers making turn based strategy games make WAY to little for it to even be reasonable to be about money and greed.

Maybe they bit off more they could chew on their budget. Maybe they could of been more efficient. Maybe they could of done a lot of stuff but when they money is gone a company has to release what is has for better or worse. You release or you ever release. The video game industry isn't a game itself.

Last edited by Chiatroll: 11-02-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:04 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by shishikyuu View Post
people have every right to vent their frustrations after being analy penetrated like they have by this dev/publisher, regardless to how uncomfortable that makes you feel. just because this happens often doesn't change this one bit. in fact, it's all the more reason to complain more and longer as this kind of thing is 100% unacceptable.

we're not talking about a poor port or dissapointment about features not being implemented people hoped for... this is an illegal "beat and switch" and only bleating take that like laying down.
analy penetrated? Look here drama queen, if you think this is anal , then you know nothin'. Altough I can arrange for some real rear action so you can tell the difference.

Drop the conspiracy act. It's not funny, it's not interesting.
Stop assuming the devs did this on purpose and that they should be hanged for their "crime".
Things like this happen. They can happen to anyone. If you wroked in the industry (and apprently you don't, otherwise you'd know this), they could happen to you. And then you'd be on the recieving end of nerd rage.
So Mec made a bad call at the end. Should all the people wroking on it day and night suffer for that? this game was a massive project for Kerberos. I wouldn't be surprised if the folks there slept in the office to get it done (and from what I gather they actually did). They are all only human. At the end of such a huge crunch, I bet they were all burned out too. Mistakes happen.

How can people be so anal as you, and so full of vitirol, I can never understand. It's all about you isn't it?



In the end you will get your monies worth. Patches are coming in steadly. At this rate it will be fixed soon. So stop whining.
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