Lazarus' and Cain's Low Damage

LordOfTheFattys · 11-01-2011, 02:47 PM

Is this just me? Am I insane? When I play as Isaac, I can count the numbers of hits I have to land on certain creatures. Pacers and basic enemies in the basement are three, Attack flies are two, shooting flies are three, etc. When I get even a Single plus to damage as Isaac I see those numbers decrease by one. Attack flies are one hit kill, Pacers, Shooting flies, The floating head things(Now maws, the easier ones that don't more) etc all die in two hits.

Cain and Lazarus are supposed to do more damage from the start, and yet I find their damage to be the same, the same number of hits per enemy....Am I insane?

Edit: I'm sorry, I meant Judas and Cain. My mistake. ^_^

rscnyx · 11-01-2011, 03:16 PM

...Lazarus? Who's this?

Anyway, Cain does slightly more damage to enemies, from what I noticed, but it's not that big of a difference.

LordOfTheFattys · 11-01-2011, 03:19 PM

I meant Judas, sorry.

Jankanpo · 11-01-2011, 03:22 PM

The damage makes more of a difference the deeper you go into the basement.

rscnyx · 11-01-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordOfTheFattys

I meant Judas, sorry.

Oh, okay. I was a tad confused.

Judas tends to kill enemies with one less shot than Isaac, guaranteed. The damage bonus with Cain is still there, but a bit less apparent.

However, one thing you will notice is that they both stack with bonus damage items better. If you get Crown of Thorns, Small Rock, Pentagram, and other damage boosting items, they become little less than powerhouses. Add in Chocolate Milk, and they just wreck everything.

Whereas Isaac and Eve have a bit more work to do to get to the same level. Eve in particular. I swear, her Chocolate Milk charge shot does slightly more damage than Judas's standard shot.

yentass · 11-01-2011, 03:39 PM

Edmund already related to that in one of his tweets - Judas indeed does more damage, and the reason that Isaac and Judas both kill a fly with two shots is because Isaac drains, say, 50% of the fly's HP on the first hit, while Judas drains 80% - that's why the fly lives after the first shot; the second shot basically over-kills him (the percentage is probably off, but you get the gist, right?). It surely applies to other enemies as well.

If you want to assess the true damage these characters deal - try and monitor how each of one of them performs versus the same boss and juxtapose. You'll be able to pull it off since bosses' HP bars are visible.

LordOfTheFattys · 11-01-2011, 04:29 PM

Ah, see, that makes a lot of sense. I guess it's kinda obvious, if you think about it. Thanks. ^_^

yentass · 11-02-2011, 04:46 AM

Well, to be honest I thought of it today and that makes ZERO sense actually;
Judas has twice the initial damage of Isaac in bars, so unless the actual damage points per bar are different between Isaac and Judas, or the damage points have a range like in other RPG's (let's say, Judases initial damage is 3-6, Isaac's is 2-4 or something), it's mathematically improbable that both Isaac and Judas would EVER use the same amount of shots to kill the same enemy; the closest thing possible is 3 shots by Isaac would equal 2 shots by Judas.

LordOfTheFattys · 11-02-2011, 05:25 AM

Well that's the thing. I'm not really talking about Judas so much as Cain. And if I'm not mistaken, Cain only has One bar higher then Isaac.

KDR_11k · 11-02-2011, 02:39 PM

The bars are probably not the absolute number, two bars isn't twice the damage of one bar. Maybe each bar is 10% added to a base damage value or something. Same for the stats in the ESC screen.

11-01-2011, 02:47 PM	#1
LordOfTheFattys Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 9	Lazarus' and Cain's Low Damage Is this just me? Am I insane? When I play as Isaac, I can count the numbers of hits I have to land on certain creatures. Pacers and basic enemies in the basement are three, Attack flies are two, shooting flies are three, etc. When I get even a Single plus to damage as Isaac I see those numbers decrease by one. Attack flies are one hit kill, Pacers, Shooting flies, The floating head things(Now maws, the easier ones that don't more) etc all die in two hits. Cain and Lazarus are supposed to do more damage from the start, and yet I find their damage to be the same, the same number of hits per enemy....Am I insane? Edit: I'm sorry, I meant Judas and Cain. My mistake. ^_^ Last edited by LordOfTheFattys: 11-01-2011 at 03:19 PM.

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11-01-2011, 03:16 PM	#2
rscnyx Join Date: May 2011 Reputation: 5 Posts: 77	...Lazarus? Who's this? Anyway, Cain does slightly more damage to enemies, from what I noticed, but it's not that big of a difference.

11-01-2011, 03:19 PM	#3
LordOfTheFattys Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 9	I meant Judas, sorry.

11-01-2011, 03:22 PM	#4
Jankanpo Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 1 Posts: 111	The damage makes more of a difference the deeper you go into the basement.

11-01-2011, 03:39 PM	#6
yentass Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 139 Posts: 343	Edmund already related to that in one of his tweets - Judas indeed does more damage, and the reason that Isaac and Judas both kill a fly with two shots is because Isaac drains, say, 50% of the fly's HP on the first hit, while Judas drains 80% - that's why the fly lives after the first shot; the second shot basically over-kills him (the percentage is probably off, but you get the gist, right?). It surely applies to other enemies as well. If you want to assess the true damage these characters deal - try and monitor how each of one of them performs versus the same boss and juxtapose. You'll be able to pull it off since bosses' HP bars are visible.

11-01-2011, 04:29 PM	#7
LordOfTheFattys Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 9	Ah, see, that makes a lot of sense. I guess it's kinda obvious, if you think about it. Thanks. ^_^

11-02-2011, 04:46 AM	#8
yentass Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 139 Posts: 343	Well, to be honest I thought of it today and that makes ZERO sense actually; Judas has twice the initial damage of Isaac in bars, so unless the actual damage points per bar are different between Isaac and Judas, or the damage points have a range like in other RPG's (let's say, Judases initial damage is 3-6, Isaac's is 2-4 or something), it's mathematically improbable that both Isaac and Judas would EVER use the same amount of shots to kill the same enemy; the closest thing possible is 3 shots by Isaac would equal 2 shots by Judas.

11-02-2011, 05:25 AM	#9
LordOfTheFattys Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 9	Well that's the thing. I'm not really talking about Judas so much as Cain. And if I'm not mistaken, Cain only has One bar higher then Isaac.

11-02-2011, 02:39 PM	#10
KDR_11k Join Date: Feb 2009 Reputation: 57 Posts: 1,514	The bars are probably not the absolute number, two bars isn't twice the damage of one bar. Maybe each bar is 10% added to a base damage value or something. Same for the stats in the ESC screen.