Master level destruction spells suck ...

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 11:52 AM

Seriously, what were they thinking ?

(if you don't want to know what the spells do then skip next section)

The fire damage spell, firestorm, is close range. Imagine flame cloak, only a single timed cast that creates an explosion. You cannot move, you cannot look elsewhere, and the chargetime is something like 5 seconds. Impact/stagger doesn't work, so you blindly have to predict when the enemies will get hit, and pray to god they will be dead. So this spell is useless for anything that does not drop to an incinerate or two. Thing is, allowing the enemies that are stronger in melee range for this spell is utter suicide. For anything else you can cast two fireballs. A whole lot faster and safer.

Next, lightning spell, lightning storm. My god does it suck. Same problem as above. You are routed to the ground, have the same long ♥♥♥ cast animation and the damage is much, much lower than a bunch of lightning bolts cast one after another.

Finally, the frost spell, blizzard. This one actually could be useful, if it were not subject to the same long cast animation and being rooted to the ground and unable to look away. It creates a blizzard around you that will damage and potentially slow enemies. But you will want to avoid enemies that close, and those that aren't too dangerous don't warrant the use of this spell.

TL;DR:
The spells suck ♥♥♥ because you're rooted to the spot, have to spend 5 seconds casting it, 2/3 require the target to be in near melee range (aka: prepare to be oneshotted range) and the damage is the same or lower than the expert level spells (incinerate, lightning bolt, icy spear).

For me it was very much like finally getting that daedric sword and seeing that it has 1 base damage.

PS: Don't come in here telling people to use conjuration or whatever. That IS a perfectly valid statement, conjuration and most other trees are awesome, if not the best in the game, but that doesn't take away the fact that master destruction spells suck.

arcon97 · 11-20-2011, 11:56 AM

Yea, it could be useful if your spells didnt damage your allies(followers or conjured) who could take aggro while you cast, but since your spells do damage them Master = useless.

So its sorta boring after awhile using the thunderstorm, ice spear, incinerate and chain lightning all with the stagger effect, but oh well.

haf922 · 11-20-2011, 12:13 PM

Actually the biggest disadvantage is that using lighting storm you can't even SEE anything because of the blinding effects; so basically you are firing blindly

inb4 imma fire mah lazor

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 12:31 PM

Yeah, when I saw the description for the skill I was expecting this, and after casting it was like this.

Mr Rabbit · 11-20-2011, 12:45 PM

Illusion is terrible as well, It's basically the mood effects (calm, rally, fury and fear) but it's based around you and it has the same superlong animation. The only thing it has going for it is that it works up to lvl 35 and is AoE, but that's pointless considering it takes a ton of magicka to cast. Besides, a dual casted Pacify spell (expert) does all of that as well, but with range as well.

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 12:52 PM

Looks like nearly all master tier spells suck

Maybe with the exception of conjuration (neat, not really necessary) and alteration (dragon hide = 30 sec 80% damage resist.

vonbach · 11-20-2011, 12:57 PM

Give it time I'm sure someone will mod something or a patch or DLC will be put out.
Also lets be honest does a high level mage even need those spells?

drksdr · 11-20-2011, 01:00 PM

I just wanna make FLAMES more powerful and longer range.

Firebolts and walls of fire are nice but there's just something about a jet of flame shooting from your hands that calls to me...

if any modders reading can make the flames more white/blue/intense every twenty points of damage, that'd be good...

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonbach

Give it time I'm sure someone will mod something or a patch or DLC will be put out.
Also lets be honest does a high level mage even need those spells?

No, but as is, there is absolutely zero reason to increase destruction past 75 (well, disintegrate at 80 IIRC) or to even do the quest to get the spells.

It also makes ZERO sense that you don't need the master level spells because expert level are simply better in all regards but flashiness.

Yay I reached master level ! Oh; the new spells are worthless. It's like finding out the daedric bow does only 1 damage so you have to keep using the same ebony one ...

vonbach · 11-20-2011, 01:09 PM

It would be nice if Bethesda showed a bit of imagination. I see what your saying too.
But I think they were worried about balance. After all mages are powerful enough
without super-nuke spells.

Ardbug · 11-20-2011, 01:22 PM

Melee spells for a cloth/leather wearing caster .... that is definitely not what you want at that point in the game.
A modder might as well change the spells to affect the weather outside, sunny, rainy, stormy, it would be more effective and useful than the current master level spells.

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vonbach

It would be nice if Bethesda showed a bit of imagination. I see what your saying too.
But I think they were worried about balance. After all mages are powerful enough
without super-nuke spells.

I've seen daedric swords with 800+ damage on it ...

I think a slightly more useful version of the spells would be nice. Have lightning be what it is, but remove the long cast and stuck to the ground.
Change the fire spell to match flames, only with more range and a wider arc, or make it a quicker cast of the current version WITH knockback/stagger
Make the ice spell a constant stream of tiny icicles (1/sec, 100-ish damage) and remove being stuck to the ground.

geronimo789 · 11-20-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ardbug

Melee spells for a cloth/leather wearing caster .... that is definitely not what you want at that point in the game.
A modder might as well change the spells to affect the weather outside, sunny, rainy, stormy, it would be more effective and useful than the current master level spells.

Spoiler:
There are shouts for that. Clear sky when you ascend from high hrothgar to see paarthenax, and thunderstorm when you get to some heaven/paradise thing

BLITZDace · 11-20-2011, 01:36 PM

This mod tries to address some of these issues.

Donatti · 11-20-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLITZDace

This mod tries to address some of these issues.

I want your children.

11-20-2011, 11:52 AM	#1
geronimo789 Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 505 Posts: 1,819	Master level destruction spells suck ... Seriously, what were they thinking ? (if you don't want to know what the spells do then skip next section) The fire damage spell, firestorm, is close range. Imagine flame cloak, only a single timed cast that creates an explosion. You cannot move, you cannot look elsewhere, and the chargetime is something like 5 seconds. Impact/stagger doesn't work, so you blindly have to predict when the enemies will get hit, and pray to god they will be dead. So this spell is useless for anything that does not drop to an incinerate or two. Thing is, allowing the enemies that are stronger in melee range for this spell is utter suicide. For anything else you can cast two fireballs. A whole lot faster and safer. Next, lightning spell, lightning storm. My god does it suck. Same problem as above. You are routed to the ground, have the same long ♥♥♥ cast animation and the damage is much, much lower than a bunch of lightning bolts cast one after another. Finally, the frost spell, blizzard. This one actually could be useful, if it were not subject to the same long cast animation and being rooted to the ground and unable to look away. It creates a blizzard around you that will damage and potentially slow enemies. But you will want to avoid enemies that close, and those that aren't too dangerous don't warrant the use of this spell. TL;DR: The spells suck ♥♥♥ because you're rooted to the spot, have to spend 5 seconds casting it, 2/3 require the target to be in near melee range (aka: prepare to be oneshotted range) and the damage is the same or lower than the expert level spells (incinerate, lightning bolt, icy spear). For me it was very much like finally getting that daedric sword and seeing that it has 1 base damage. PS: Don't come in here telling people to use conjuration or whatever. That IS a perfectly valid statement, conjuration and most other trees are awesome, if not the best in the game, but that doesn't take away the fact that master destruction spells suck. Last edited by geronimo789: 11-20-2011 at 12:03 PM.

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11-20-2011, 11:56 AM	#2
arcon97 Join Date: Jan 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 47	Yea, it could be useful if your spells didnt damage your allies(followers or conjured) who could take aggro while you cast, but since your spells do damage them Master = useless. So its sorta boring after awhile using the thunderstorm, ice spear, incinerate and chain lightning all with the stagger effect, but oh well.

11-20-2011, 12:13 PM	#3
haf922 Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 6 Posts: 228	Actually the biggest disadvantage is that using lighting storm you can't even SEE anything because of the blinding effects; so basically you are firing blindly inb4 imma fire mah lazor

11-20-2011, 12:31 PM	#4
geronimo789 Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 505 Posts: 1,819	Yeah, when I saw the description for the skill I was expecting this, and after casting it was like this.

11-20-2011, 12:45 PM	#5
Mr Rabbit Join Date: Jul 2010 Reputation: 331 Posts: 2,991	Illusion is terrible as well, It's basically the mood effects (calm, rally, fury and fear) but it's based around you and it has the same superlong animation. The only thing it has going for it is that it works up to lvl 35 and is AoE, but that's pointless considering it takes a ton of magicka to cast. Besides, a dual casted Pacify spell (expert) does all of that as well, but with range as well.

11-20-2011, 12:52 PM	#6
geronimo789 Join Date: May 2010 Reputation: 505 Posts: 1,819	Looks like nearly all master tier spells suck Maybe with the exception of conjuration (neat, not really necessary) and alteration (dragon hide = 30 sec 80% damage resist.

11-20-2011, 12:57 PM	#7
vonbach Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 137 Posts: 2,028	Give it time I'm sure someone will mod something or a patch or DLC will be put out. Also lets be honest does a high level mage even need those spells?

11-20-2011, 01:00 PM	#8
drksdr Join Date: Apr 2011 Reputation: 13 Posts: 169	I just wanna make FLAMES more powerful and longer range. Firebolts and walls of fire are nice but there's just something about a jet of flame shooting from your hands that calls to me... if any modders reading can make the flames more white/blue/intense every twenty points of damage, that'd be good...

11-20-2011, 01:09 PM	#10
vonbach Join Date: Apr 2010 Reputation: 137 Posts: 2,028	It would be nice if Bethesda showed a bit of imagination. I see what your saying too. But I think they were worried about balance. After all mages are powerful enough without super-nuke spells.

11-20-2011, 01:22 PM	#11
Ardbug Join Date: Mar 2007 Reputation: 488 Posts: 2,222	Melee spells for a cloth/leather wearing caster .... that is definitely not what you want at that point in the game. A modder might as well change the spells to affect the weather outside, sunny, rainy, stormy, it would be more effective and useful than the current master level spells.

11-20-2011, 01:36 PM	#14
BLITZDace Join Date: Jul 2011 Reputation: 183 Posts: 783	This mod tries to address some of these issues.