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Old 12-09-2011, 08:11 AM   #1
Lexinator
 
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WARNING this is not a true F2P game. Read on to see why.

Sony finally did something right in my book. DC Universe Online is an excellent F2P offering, limiting you in nothing except cash (which is easily bypassed), and some other minor things (which are also easily bypassed).

So I thought would give this re-launch a try. I am sad to say that nothing has changed since the EQ2X days. What this means is that you still HAVE to pay or subscribe to actually enjoy the game.

After jumping on my almost level capped character I found out that you are still charged real money to equip any and all items you get as quest rewards after about level 84. This is purely ridiculous! Yes, you are still unable to wear Legendary or Fabled items, and must pay real money every time you want to equip one of them on. This gets pricey real fast. Every quest in the later zones rewards you with Legendary or higher gear, and having to pay to equip every upgrade costs more in a day than the subscription. All the NPC's and mobs are tuned to you wearing said gear, so at that point you pretty much have to subscribe... Or die constantly.

I was at least hoping they would change that since the game can be played (although at a severely gimped status) for free up until that point.

This brings us on to my next major disappointing. Spell tiers are also still restricted and you are required to once again pay real money or subscribe to unlock them. You have to spend quite a bit of cash to make your character viable, as going around with Adept spells doesn't cut it after the upper mid levels. For a one time fee of $5 you can raise this cap to Expert, but honestly you really do need access to the Master tier if you hope to enjoy later content.

My friends Necromancer can't solo mobs I laugh at because he is capped at the Expert spell levels where as I spent real money and unlocked a few Master spells. Yes, the difference is that major. What takes my Necromancer seconds to kill, takes him a lot longer or sometimes even kills him. My, what a difference a few pieces of gear and better spells make. Gimping free to play players that way is a low blow and an ignorant way to ensure they subscribe or pay up.

Combined with the limit that is placed on Legendary gear this is really not a free to play game. It is more of a very long trial. Once you get to the truly fun part of the game you are required to subscribe.

Don't even get me started on PvP. Someone in better gear than you with higher spells than your character will tear you down in seconds flat. I have done it to other F2P members just because I have better gear. Heck, I was even a few levels lower but because my spells and gear were higher tier, there was no contest and I simply dominated them.

Everquest 2 has one of the best end games out there, but the limits placed on your character make the game pointless.

My suggestion is that you go play the excellent DCUO offering, also from Sony (but done right with regards to F2P), or if you want a fantasy RPG, go with the much better (and also trully free to play) Lord of the Rings Online.

Last edited by Lexinator: 12-19-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:13 AM   #2
Lexinator
 
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Reserved for more. Ask questions and I will try to answer them.

I currently have three almost level capped characters and can answer questions about the Necromancer, Shadowknight and Brigand. They are all 80 or higher. Only my main is 89, and I don't play as him because the cost of gear/upgrades make it unrealistic. I also refuse to subscribe because the game is titled as Free to Play.

Last edited by Lexinator: 12-09-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:43 AM   #3
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EQ2 is a >HUGE< game world. They have never claimed the entire game is F2P. There are hundreds of zones and thousands of quests you can explore, either solo or in a group, without having to pay anything. When you get to the zones with the top-tier raids, and the latest endgame content, yes, you'll need to either subscribe or else spend a few bucks on microtransactions to equip the gear you'll need. Since they've had an F2P server running for almost a year and a half, many people have been playing to their heart's content for all that time without subscribing, and have been very happy. The reason other EQ2 servers have been opened up to F2P players, and the reason the client is now available for download on Steam, is that the model they chose has been uber-successful. You can't argue with that.

If you want to collect higher-level magic spells for cheap: You can purchase a temporary one-month upgrade to gold status, and any spells you learn while gold status, Master level and above, are yours to keep even if you drop back down to silver status. You can also purchase this temporary upgrade with Station Cash rather than real $, and they have frequent Double SC promotions, where you get double what you pay for. So net cost wouldn't be $15 for the month, it would be $7.50. Same thing applies if you want to buy spells in the marketplace. There will also occasionally be promotions where you can play at gold level for a weekend, which is a good time to break out your magic users and go spell-grabbing.

They have to be able to make money somehow, otherwise there would be no game at all. Getting the best bang for your meager bucks is part of the game when using the F2P model.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:13 AM   #4
IamThe1
 
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Captain, according the their tag line -

FREE TO PLAY. YOUR WAY. ™
Our philosophy is simple. Free games.
No commitment. And if you want to buy,
it's on your terms!

The point is there is no want to buy. I am only level 81 and am already struggling with the restrictions. I can't play or enjoy the game. I have to buy to proceed.

Nothing has changed since EQ2X. If you gave it a try and couldn't live with the limits, don't bother trying again. The limits are still firmly in place.

As for waiting for free gold weekends, in all the time I have played we had those once. Doing a google search further shows that they only had that offer twice.

Yes, they have to earn money. But they also sell lackluster content packs that they call expansions every few months. Age of Discovery features very little and costs a lot more than the dlcs in DCUO, which add more to the game!

They also sell bag slots, upgrades, races, characters, etc. They can make money just fine. Look at what Turbine is doing. LOTRO is just epic as f2p. You can play for free to your hearts content and earn TP, which you can use to buy items, quests, etc from the Turbine store.

DCUO places very few limits on you and earns money from dlc, costumes, and escrow.

FE has virtually no limits on you and earns money by selling trinkets.

I could go on and on, but why bother with a game that forces you to pay to progress when you can go with a much better f2p game in the first place?

I am actually surprised people managed to get above 80 with the limits EQ2 forces on you. I am having an impossible time leveling as I can't wear legendary gear and adept spells are doing nothing. NOOOOTHIIIINNNG!

But lol, in all seriousness don't even bother with this game. Go for LOTRO if you want a fantasy fix, or DCUO if you want a superhero game. FE is also pretty good as a post apoc MMO, but LOTRO is the clear winner in terms of f2p content to story to coolness factor.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:50 AM   #5
captain_video
 
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You're entitled to your opinion on how their F2P model works. I'm not posting to engage in that argument. I'm merely pointing out the model they are using has proven to be very successful for them, so far, and they're not going to change it no matter how much criticism you offer up.

They publish expansion packs once a year, not once every few months, and those packs are completely optional. Even the expansion pack prices can be discounted if you buy them using Station Cash you pick up in a double SC promotion. The free Gold status weekends have been happening about once every six months, it's not very often but it is still an option when you're going to play a game for a year or more.

DCUO is a much, much smaller game, so it uses a different F2P model. The level cap there is 30. If you're playing a level 81 character in EQ2 without having bought anything, that's a lot of gaming for free! Particularly since you can do that with multiple characters and multiple roles (tank, DPS, CC, healer). People like you who don't want to pay anything, ever, are always going to complain. They're not going to change their business model just for you.

BTW, another way to continue from where you're at now, without spending any $, is to get into a progression raiding guild. They're always looking for new people because of turnover. Guild members will frequently trade you equip tokens for gear items you loot but can't use, and some will even pay you extra equip tokens if you spend some time helping out one of theirs in a progression mission. Sure, it's a grind, but in the end all these games come down to choices between paying or grinding. As long as you have at least Silver status, you can trade at will within your guild for free. So it is possible to reach level cap in EQ2 without paying anything except for your Silver status, many people have done it already.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
You're entitled to your opinion on how their F2P model works. I'm not posting to engage in that argument. I'm merely pointing out the model they are using has proven to be very successful for them, so far, and they're not going to change it no matter how much criticism you offer up.

They publish expansion packs once a year, not once every few months, and those packs are completely optional. Even the expansion pack prices can be discounted if you buy them using Station Cash you pick up in a double SC promotion. The free Gold status weekends have been happening about once every six months, it's not very often but it is still an option when you're going to play a game for a year or more.

DCUO is a much, much smaller game, so it uses a different F2P model. The level cap there is 30. If you're playing a level 81 character in EQ2 without having bought anything, that's a lot of gaming for free! Particularly since you can do that with multiple characters and multiple roles (tank, DPS, CC, healer). People like you who don't want to pay anything, ever, are always going to complain. They're not going to change their business model just for you.

BTW, another way to continue from where you're at now, without spending any $, is to get into a progression raiding guild. They're always looking for new people because of turnover. Guild members will frequently trade you equip tokens for gear items you loot but can't use, and some will even pay you extra equip tokens if you spend some time helping out one of theirs in a progression mission. Sure, it's a grind, but in the end all these games come down to choices between paying or grinding. As long as you have at least Silver status, you can trade at will within your guild for free. So it is possible to reach level cap in EQ2 without paying anything except for your Silver status, many people have done it already.
If their model worked so well, why did they just change it then?
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:31 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Arche22 View Post
If their model worked so well, why did they just change it then?
They didn't change it, they just expanded it to encompass more servers, and there is a new promotional campaign to go along with the addition of the F2P client on Steam. The original EQ2 F2P server, named Freeport, has been running for a year and a half.

There is also a new EQ2 expansion, called "Age of Discovery", which was released this week. It isn't necessary to play the game, but it has a lot of useful additions for veteran players, such as mercenaries (NPCs you can hire), and a Dungeon Maker kit (for player-created dungeons, obviously). Another reason for the timing of the latest game promotions.
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

People like you who don't want to pay anything, ever, are always going to complain.
Thanks for singling people like me out. It's good to see that the game has such awesome players to put us back into our place.

People like me spent $15 so far on the game just to get to 81. I bought gear unlocks at certain points in my career to advance further. I also at one time was a subscriber to the game, but that is neither here nor there. I moved on to Lord Of The Rings Online and have not looked back until I heard of this move to free to play. I will continue to play and spend money on LOTRO and DCUO.

People like me also suggest that you avoid Everquest 2 because of people like captain_video.

People like me would also like to once again tell you to go play LOTRO or DCUO, where you can actually pay without spending a dime and only spend money because you really want to.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:06 AM   #9
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People like me would also like to once again tell you to go play LOTRO or DCUO, where you can actually pay without spending a dime and only spend money because you really want to.
Bit of a Freudian slip there, huh?

People are going to choose a game world they enjoy the most. LotRO is Tolkien. DCUO is superheroes. EQ2 is traditional fantasy roleplay. I think that will be a deciding factor for many people.

Hundreds of hours of gameplay for $15, never mind free, strikes me as being a pretty good value. But that's just me.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by IamThe1 View Post
Thanks for singling people like me out. It's good to see that the game has such awesome players to put us back into our place.

People like me spent $15 so far on the game just to get to 81. I bought gear unlocks at certain points in my career to advance further. I also at one time was a subscriber to the game, but that is neither here nor there. I moved on to Lord Of The Rings Online and have not looked back until I heard of this move to free to play. I will continue to play and spend money on LOTRO and DCUO.

People like me also suggest that you avoid Everquest 2 because of people like captain_video.

People like me would also like to once again tell you to go play LOTRO or DCUO, where you can actually pay without spending a dime and only spend money because you really want to.
+1

I was Everquest II subscriber during 2 years.

Everquest II new F2P model is more expensive than a real MMORPG abonnement like World of Warcraft... FOR LESS

Go on Lotro or Runes of Magic and if you want pay go on World of Warcraft or Warhammer Online.
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:13 AM   #11
Dangazzm
 
 
 
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I think it is a ripoff too, I like LOTRO and DDO's F2P scheme haven't checked out DCUO yet though... I should do that this weekend. Anyways long story short it is personal preference, yes it is nice it is free and seems to be viable for free players for quite a long time. However, I still wish they had a lock content and let people pay once for it. Their sub setup seems... scammy to me, not saying it is but my head screams it when I see it.

I love how turbine set he precedent that you can do subs with one off payments, I like choosing one off and coming back when I choose. I am fickle with games usually, they don't seem to grip me like they used to. Not enough innovation or me developing ADD? Dunno don't care just saying :P
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Old 12-09-2011, 11:30 AM   #12
captain_video
 
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People who read this thread should put more weight on the opinions of those who are actually playing the current version, not those who only played several years ago as subscribers (when it was a completely different game), or who have never played at all and are just making things up about how much it costs.

SOE doesn't use the same business model as Turbine. If that's your beef, deal with it and stop trolling here.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:32 PM   #13
Lexinator
 
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People who read this thread should put more weight on the opinions of those who are actually playing the current version, not those who only played several years ago as subscribers (when it was a completely different game), or who have never played at all and are just making things up about how much it costs.
I agree with you here. The problem is that the game seems like free to play until you reach higher levels. I feel that if I don't warn potential players, they will have wasted plenty of time building up their characters and will then be so invested that they will either shell out money for upgrades, subscribe, or rage.


That is what Sony hopes they will do.

In this economy every dollar is valuable, and spending them needlessly on something that claims to be a free to play game should not have to be a requirement. After all, why bother when there are plenty of truly free to play games out there.

There is nothing wrong with rewarding the developer for a job well done, and if you look at my DCUO review, you will see that I also suggest people buy the cards and take advantage of the SC promotions. But I can't recommend that here. A $15 card, will not even last you a day of playing in a high level zone because of all the upgrades you will find. Not even if you get a double SC promotion.

At that point, it is simply better to subscribe. I speak from personal experience here as I spent about $45 to get my main to the point where he is at right now. All of these cards were used during the double SC promotions, which means that it cost me roughly $120 worth of SC to level and gear from 75 ish to 89 on just ONE character (I also think I bought a few unlocks for my SK, but not too many. The majority of the SC went towards my Necromancer). Honestly, I should have just subscribed at that point but because I had so much SC, I didn't. That was my fault. I am just trying to prevent others from making those same mistakes.

What I hope people will do is simply try another game, or browse the many threads on the Sony forums explaining that the game is just a glorified trial, nothing else. Everyone agrees that once you hit the higher end content, it is cheaper to subscribe than pay as you go, and you WILL pay as you go. Or you will die and get frustrated.

The math wizards on the Sony forums said that unless you play just a few hours a week, and get all of your SC during promotions, that you NEED to subscribe.

I am simply repeating that here, on the Steam forums.

If you NEED to pay or NEED to subscribe at ANY point in the game, it is not F2P. It is a trial. Everquest 2 falls into this category. It is a good trial, and a very good game, but why bother unless you know that you will be subscribing?

If you are looking for a free to play game, look elsewhere.

Last edited by Lexinator: 12-09-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
People who read this thread should put more weight on the opinions of those who are actually playing the current version, not those who only played several years ago as subscribers (when it was a completely different game), or who have never played at all and are just making things up about how much it costs.

SOE doesn't use the same business model as Turbine. If that's your beef, deal with it and stop trolling here.
I understand what you are saying but...

Turbine games are MMORPG's just like this, they all use the F2P model with Cash Shops and Subscriptions... they are different models but they could do the exact same thing in theory.

And since Turbine has set the bar really high for F2P schemes in games, I also think Hi-Res is doing a pretty good job with their whole pay for the game and get permanent perks thing it's pretty cool.

TLDR? Their same model COULD be applied, to say that they don't use the same business model... well depends on the definition of a business model. Is F2P the business model? Yea they are the same then. If the way they implement the F2P is their business model... then they are only slightly different.

No one is doubting that their is plenty of free content that I seen hah. One of the things that people don't understand though is that free players are a vital part of any F2P game, but in some games they are extorted and punished driving them all away.

One game you can see this very clearly is in Runescape, yea yea I know but follow me here. Free players farm up all these items that they can to make money in order to progress right. Paying members can make money easier so they simply purchase this stuff instead of spending hours farming it themselves! Everybody wins. I used to play it a long while ago as free then pay. I had paying players ask me to get them X amount of wood and what not and deliver it to them and they would pay me... other pay members wouldn't do it for the most part because they had better things to do like paid content hah. Anyways, that's what I believe makes the F2P model really work. In fact Extra Credits did a segment on this, it's one of their old videos and shoulda been moved to their Youtube channel but I didn't check it. Their new stuff is on penny-arcade though if you haven't heard of them.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:05 PM   #15
ElazulHP
 
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Not a fan of the F2P micro-transaction model of gaming. I, however, AM a fan of the standard MMO model and Guild Wars model of MMO gaming(probably more than the standard). Micro-transaction in the F2P model basically makes you end up paying more than if you had simply played a Pay to Play game in the end. This is of course unless you are a hardcore F2P masochist, but really is that fun or even a productive way to spend your time? Time IS money after all!
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