change the way achievs work

0cube · 12-25-2011, 04:42 AM

I think it's pretty cheap how the game saves the unlocked achievements... I have not much knowledge regarding programming, but a file that can easily be edited with notepad (hell, its the suggested program by windows in the first place...) in order to unlock any/all the achievements available in the game definitely shouldn't be the way around.
Please change this to avoid cheating the achievements. (I can deliver closer information if you dont know what i mean/don't believe me per pm to one of your developers).

LordMarconius · 12-25-2011, 07:59 AM

You're kinda right in the sense they probably should do this, but... it's not really much of an issue. Achievements don't give you anything beyond (maybe) bragging rights, so there's really no reason to cheat just to get them. In fact, cheating to get achievements would be kinda sad.

Also, putting in more restrictions for getting achievements might cause frustration to people trying to get them normally. For example, mods would likely not allow you to get achievements, which might irritate people who like small UI changes or other such things that have nothing to do with gameplay.

0cube · 12-25-2011, 02:45 PM

I dont mean to make it harder, just don't put them in a textfile... they could be other files that are not read by notepad or something...

0cube · 01-05-2012, 05:32 PM

I wonder if there is a more proper way to report this?

magicalsushi · 01-06-2012, 01:17 PM

I don't think the developers, nor most players, really see them as particularly serious business - as LordMarconius says, there's no concrete reward for getting them, and anyone does it by cheating, they're only cheating themselves. Even if achievement progress were stored in a more secure file, the game is very moddable and you can easily get achievements by modding away difficulty. I've actually done this myself by accident once.

0cube · 01-08-2012, 11:29 AM

So did i out of curiosity and thats why i want to help them fix it; for me and a lot of other people achievements are a fine way to keep me/them playing and trying out strategies i/they never would have thought before. Just because its not that important to some people doesnt mean it shouldnt be fixed.

magicalsushi · 01-08-2012, 01:39 PM

But if it's important to you, why would you cheat by editing the achievements file manually?

h4ngedm4n · 01-08-2012, 01:54 PM

This is a complete non-issue. No one cares except the OP. At the end of the day, people who want to cheat, will cheat, irregardless of file formats. Honestly, I think maybe OP is just new to the internet and thinks achievements are something sacred and should be protected. They are not. Most of us already know that pretty much every game on steam has achievements that are cheatable. Have you been on a TF2 achievement server? HA HA. Maybe OP would be shocked to know how much save-game file sharing for the sake of achievements was done over the holiday event.

magicalsushi · 01-08-2012, 02:36 PM

Well, let's not be too blunt.

Incidentally, the current insecure achievements file will actually be very useful for me - I can undo the damage caused by my accidental cheating! I really didn't want the modified scenario I was messing around with to trigger any achievements; hopefully I can undo them.

0cube · 01-08-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicalsushi

But if it's important to you, why would you cheat by editing the achievements file manually?

Out of curiosity, its not that hard to understand. And I also like figuring out how things work. Its similar to hacking in a certain way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by h4ngedm4n

This is a complete non-issue. No one cares except the OP

Oh look, its the wise guy with the nice username. No one cares about your opinion either, and I never said achievements are sacred. But it is a feature of a game and I am certainly not the only person who likes to hunt achievements. Cheating achievements in my opinion is just as bad as using a savegame or any other kind of cheat.
This issue can be fixed and I'd like to see it actually getting fixed. Just because you don't have to say anything important on the subject doesn't mean you should say anything at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by h4ngedm4n

HA HA. Maybe OP would be shocked to know how much save-game file sharing for the sake of achievements was done over the holiday event.

I don't see why I would be shocked; frankly there are cheaters everywhere. But that doesn't change the fact that the achievement unlocking tracking should be changed.

h4ngedm4n · 01-09-2012, 02:59 PM

I see I came off harshly and I apologize for that. With that said, perhaps OP views achievements in a competitive manner and this is why the ease of cheating bothers him. However, it is also possible to enjoy achievements and be non-competitive about it. Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me whether the file is encrypted or plaintext.

magicalsushi · 01-09-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0cube

Out of curiosity, its not that hard to understand. And I also like figuring out how things work. Its similar to hacking in a certain way.

Okay, you satifised your curiosity. All you have to do now is leave the file alone. Problem solved!

Quote:

Originally Posted by h4ngedm4n

Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me whether the file is encrypted or plaintext.

I've decided it matters slightly to me; plaintext is preferable as it could be good to reset achievements you've already accomplished, and try different strategies for getting them. If you try this without resetting them, you'll have to keep checking the achievement condition manually, which is tedious (and unreliable - in other posts on this forum, it is evident that the achievement conditions are often not as simple as they sound).

vonklaude · 02-03-2012, 05:47 AM

We decided in development to leave files pretty open to the community. We felt that the vast majority of players are unlikely to touch them, but for the curious and those interested in modding we hoped that leaving things accessible would be our best policy.

Any protection we put on the way achievements are stored could be beaten by editing the policies or save files to make it certain that you achieved them. One ends up in an escalating security war, and one we're unlikely to win I think. Players are ingenious that way.

12-25-2011, 04:42 AM	#1
0cube Join Date: Aug 2009 Reputation: 2 Posts: 138	change the way achievs work I think it's pretty cheap how the game saves the unlocked achievements... I have not much knowledge regarding programming, but a file that can easily be edited with notepad (hell, its the suggested program by windows in the first place...) in order to unlock any/all the achievements available in the game definitely shouldn't be the way around. Please change this to avoid cheating the achievements. (I can deliver closer information if you dont know what i mean/don't believe me per pm to one of your developers).

01-08-2012, 11:29 AM	#6
0cube Join Date: Aug 2009 Reputation: 2 Posts: 138	So did i out of curiosity and thats why i want to help them fix it; for me and a lot of other people achievements are a fine way to keep me/them playing and trying out strategies i/they never would have thought before. Just because its not that important to some people doesnt mean it shouldnt be fixed. Last edited by 0cube: 01-08-2012 at 11:31 AM.

01-08-2012, 01:54 PM	#8
h4ngedm4n Join Date: Nov 2009 Reputation: 7 Posts: 162	This is a complete non-issue. No one cares except the OP. At the end of the day, people who want to cheat, will cheat, irregardless of file formats. Honestly, I think maybe OP is just new to the internet and thinks achievements are something sacred and should be protected. They are not. Most of us already know that pretty much every game on steam has achievements that are cheatable. Have you been on a TF2 achievement server? HA HA. Maybe OP would be shocked to know how much save-game file sharing for the sake of achievements was done over the holiday event. Last edited by h4ngedm4n: 01-08-2012 at 01:58 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-25-2011, 07:59 AM	#2
LordMarconius Join Date: Mar 2011 Reputation: 12 Posts: 360	You're kinda right in the sense they probably should do this, but... it's not really much of an issue. Achievements don't give you anything beyond (maybe) bragging rights, so there's really no reason to cheat just to get them. In fact, cheating to get achievements would be kinda sad. Also, putting in more restrictions for getting achievements might cause frustration to people trying to get them normally. For example, mods would likely not allow you to get achievements, which might irritate people who like small UI changes or other such things that have nothing to do with gameplay.

12-25-2011, 02:45 PM	#3
0cube Join Date: Aug 2009 Reputation: 2 Posts: 138	I dont mean to make it harder, just don't put them in a textfile... they could be other files that are not read by notepad or something...

01-05-2012, 05:32 PM	#4
0cube Join Date: Aug 2009 Reputation: 2 Posts: 138	I wonder if there is a more proper way to report this?

01-06-2012, 01:17 PM	#5
magicalsushi Join Date: May 2011 Reputation: 8 Posts: 101	I don't think the developers, nor most players, really see them as particularly serious business - as LordMarconius says, there's no concrete reward for getting them, and anyone does it by cheating, they're only cheating themselves. Even if achievement progress were stored in a more secure file, the game is very moddable and you can easily get achievements by modding away difficulty. I've actually done this myself by accident once.

01-08-2012, 01:39 PM	#7
magicalsushi Join Date: May 2011 Reputation: 8 Posts: 101	But if it's important to you, why would you cheat by editing the achievements file manually?

01-08-2012, 02:36 PM	#9
magicalsushi Join Date: May 2011 Reputation: 8 Posts: 101	Well, let's not be too blunt. Incidentally, the current insecure achievements file will actually be very useful for me - I can undo the damage caused by my accidental cheating! I really didn't want the modified scenario I was messing around with to trigger any achievements; hopefully I can undo them.

01-09-2012, 02:59 PM	#11
h4ngedm4n Join Date: Nov 2009 Reputation: 7 Posts: 162	I see I came off harshly and I apologize for that. With that said, perhaps OP views achievements in a competitive manner and this is why the ease of cheating bothers him. However, it is also possible to enjoy achievements and be non-competitive about it. Anyway, it really doesn't matter to me whether the file is encrypted or plaintext.

02-03-2012, 05:47 AM	#13
vonklaude Red Redemption Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 10 Posts: 156	We decided in development to leave files pretty open to the community. We felt that the vast majority of players are unlikely to touch them, but for the curious and those interested in modding we hoped that leaving things accessible would be our best policy. Any protection we put on the way achievements are stored could be beaten by editing the policies or save files to make it certain that you achieved them. One ends up in an escalating security war, and one we're unlikely to win I think. Players are ingenious that way.