Knocking some sense into this Phlogistinator bull****

[Blue Warrior]

Originally Posted by Haplo81

Phlog may be poorly balanced, but it's fun as hell.

I enjoyed the phlog for about ten hours, maybe fifteen, then quit because it really wasn't that good of a weapon, and when it was it was just boring. Backburner pretty much fills the same role and does it better.

[Haplo81]

Originally Posted by Blue Warrior

I enjoyed the phlog for about ten hours, maybe fifteen, then quit because it really wasn't that good of a weapon, and when it was it was just boring. Backburner pretty much fills the same role and does it better.

Eh. Something about pubstomping with the thing picks me up after a bad day. Watching the n00bs run in terror as I taunt, or charge directly at me and get burned to ash.

[Blue Warrior]

I can relate.

[Jetpack Guy]

The Phlogistinator is essentially M1-ing. Although preferably not with W.
How is that a problem ? For once I get the fun to play the Pyro accordingly to his/her very own name : WITH FIRE.

[Erinaceus]

Originally Posted by 4812622

I'm slightly confuzzled. So RP ambushes and flanks in conjunction with his team, and HAP is just regular 1v1ing?

That's the gist of it, yes. The goal of HAP is to get kills; the goal of RP is to get flanks and deal damage.

Originally Posted by JuncoPartner

I think a couple of comments have made a good point. Need to see more of the phlog before major judgements can be passed on it. As I've seen people are weighing in on it even after minimal or no play, or even any idea what it does. It could even become much more difficult once people know the weapon does, and how to counter it, too early to tell, but never too early for spuf.

Sure, let the play settle down. However, there is very little in this weapon which can possibly provide depth; the taunt is probably the thing most suitable for that, and even that is seemingly engineered for minimum skill-indexing what with damage resistance and long taunt times.

Bad pyros typically run around, no less than just running at things and flaming them, often with the backburner, more effective than the phlog for this because of the extra damage. Even among bad players playing like that soon gets them killed, they wont be building up mmph, and probably wouldn't understand the how the weapon works if they can't get their head around pressing m2.

Or, alternately, they get a single lucky break and fill up MMPH, then fill it up again, and again, and enemies can't deal enough damage to kill the Pyro what with health regeneration and damage resistance.

And then the game becomes remarkably less fun for the opposing team.

Some people are giving informed opinons on it that I may not agree with, but I appreciate good reasoning. It's people trying to paint it to be the next liberty launcher, like a saving grace for lazy incompetent pyros, people who talk like this strike me as someone who's been destroyed by some phlog pyro, and have come here to vent.

"Some people are giving informed opinions on it that I may not agree with, but I appreciate good reasoning. It's people providing opinions I don't agree with who strike me as people who have been destroyed by some phlog pyro, and have come here to vent."

Quoting as not to repeat myself. I mean the phlog is usually shutdown depending on what classes are at play, teams, and the map, less so than skill level.

Name a reason why class composition would matter more than skill. Provide a class and why they would be not very effective vs a Phlog Pyro, and I'll provide a way for that class to demolish a Phlog Pyro given skill.

Hasn't 'roaming' itself always been common-place? No, you're right I messed up saying roaming there, because I do know what it means, no idea why I typed roaming. I meant to express that it's poor for what you would refer to as HAP. Which when I'm playing with generally bad players, teamwork sadly goes out the window along with the phlog.

'Roaming' when used in the context of Team Fortress 2 traditionally refers to the Roaming Soldier. More recently, it is applicable to the Pyro as well.

And 'roaming' is still a word on its own; you said 'roaming Pyro', however, which very strongly implies its use as a specific description of a play-style.

Which has been defined.

[Squishpoke]

Needs nerf.

[raptor67]

Originally Posted by Blue Warrior

you have to get into close range and stay in there for a few seconds, which is extremely risky and can be avoided if the enemy players are smart. The pyro does have a few afterburn-causing long range secondaries, but they don't build up the damage nearly as quickly as your flamethrower, and at that range you can also be in some danger due to your difficulty keeping up in the damage race out in the open.

The pyro explained.

[Blue Warrior]

Originally Posted by raptor67

The pyro explained.

Sadly true. The pyro at its core needs safe damage dealing options if people are to take him seriously. Nearly everything that's ever been given to the class has only worked because it refuses to acknowledge the flamethrower as an independent primary; the phlogistinator is the only one that actually tries to encourage primary fire, and it suffers as a result.

[Schierke]

Originally Posted by Blue Warrior

Sadly true. The pyro at its core needs safe damage dealing options if people are to take him seriously. Nearly everything that's ever been given to the class has only worked because it refuses to acknowledge the flamethrower as an independent primary; the phlogistinator is the only one that actually tries to encourage primary fire, and it suffers as a result.

The Pyro can be used effectively in close situations, it's just a matter of playing intelligently. Get a Medic on you, use corners and doorways to your advantage,work with your team and don't charge in alone, etc.

[Dax77]

The flamethrower is just a bad concept. You guys will never manage to fix it because its flawed to begin with. It's an easy to aim weapon that isn't deserving of high damage for the reason that it's easy to aim, and at the same time its useless without high damage, vicious cycle.

Pretty much every unlock since has tried to get the pyro away from using it, and more towards using combos. Backburner and phlog are exceptions, but they make you have to earn the extra damage, the closest thing the flamethrower will ever get to skill indexing, and we ALL know how well those weapons worked out...

Relevent requote of myself. The flamethrower will only ever be deserving of more damage if it is completely reworked to be harder to use. Otherwise, it will always fail as a primary, because anything better would be overpowering.

Suggestion: Very tight cone, improved range, faster particles, very significantly buff its damage but make the damage earned over time, so it rewards tracking.

The Pyro can be used effectively in close situations, it's just a matter of playing intelligently. Get a Medic on you, use corners and doorways to your advantage,work with your team and don't charge in alone, etc.

Now attempt to do the same without the airblast, flaregun, reserve shooter, axtinguisher, or degreaser. Suddenly much more difficult, no?

[Rec0nKn1ght]

I think a lot of posters to this thread must play Pyro like they play Soldier.

[Dax77]

Originally Posted by Rec0nKn1ght

I think a lot of posters to this thread must play Pyro like they play Soldier.

Suggesting ways to make him more combat like =/= playing him combat like.

[awookie111]

Originally Posted by Dax77

Suggesting ways to make him more combat like =/= playing him combat like.

Simply put, we want him to perform in the few combat situations that we run in. Its not like pybro is fun.

[EmceeProphIt]

Originally Posted by Blue Warrior

I enjoyed the phlog for about ten hours, maybe fifteen, then quit because it really wasn't that good of a weapon, and when it was it was just boring. Backburner pretty much fills the same role and does it better.

This 100%. Extra damage, situational crits and airblast vs. ...well, the OLD backburner with no extra hp and an occaisonal burst of crits.

[Schierke]

Originally Posted by Dax77

Relevent requote of myself. The flamethrower will only ever be deserving of more damage if it is completely reworked to be harder to use. Otherwise, it will always fail as a primary, because anything better would be overpowering.

Suggestion: Very tight cone, improved range, faster particles, very significantly buff its damage but make the damage earned over time, so it rewards tracking.



Now attempt to do the same without the airblast, flaregun, reserve shooter, axtinguisher, or degreaser. Suddenly much more difficult, no?

Of course. You take away all but the default equipment for a class, and it's going to become weaker.