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Old 02-20-2012, 09:16 AM   #1
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title loss on succession

brand new player so sorry for the noob question

can someone explain in small words and great detail one or more ways to avoid this?

playing as irish duke start with thomond and ormond. pick-up desmond via de jure. i take desmond for my own to complete the duchy and it looks like my heir will inherit everything... so all good.

then I take ossory via fabrication and get the loss on succession message.

so several questions
1. could I have done something when I invaded to avoid this
2. what can I do once I get the message
3. what screen/ menu do I see who is supposed to inherit when I die.
4. anything else I should be asking about this...

if detailed answers posted somewhere else, please post links if you can. thanks in advance
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #2
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The loss on succession message is just a warning, you need to take action. Or you lose title when you die.

When you mouse over the title on your own character screen, after a second, it expands and shows list of next 3 inheritors(in order of inheritance).
You need to make yourself or your family, next in line.

Now in your example, what happened was, when you use de jure(because your a Duke with claims to Desmond), This gives you justification to attack and seize the title now. However, it does not change the order of succession for that title. Only way to do this 100% is with false claim.

Right now your stuck, trying to breed your way back into the title or assassinating your way into direct inheritance.

With my games, if I want 100% control of all counties in a Duchy. Even though I have de jure claims, I go with false claim. The false claim makes me and all my lineage the direct owners of the title.

It takes me longer to get the false claim up front. But its less hassle in the end. One war, done, Title is mine.

A second way to review title inheritance is to left click on the tiny shield under your upper left portrait. Same with the tiny shield on any nobles portrait in game. When in a title, select claimants option.

I prefer my earlier suggestion method. Simpler.

But again. As I explained. When you use de jure as your justification for war. You only replace the 'current' title holder with yourself. You do NOT alter the remaining line of succession.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:03 AM   #3
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There are several things which can cause a loss of titles on succession.

Here is a list of some:

1) Gavelkind succession laws with more than 2 sons. This means that your titles will be split up between sons. First son gets primary, and second sons gets some left overs. This can be changed by changing laws to primogeniture or elective. This can be ok, so long as your top title is higher than all others. It just means that you will lose some demesne. be careful though as your heir's brother will be a claimant to the top title, and will take a relation hit. He will also have some lands and levies to use to press his claims in the future.

2)If you have two king titles, or your top title is a duchy and you have two, or if you only own two counties this can split your realm and should be addressed (if you have gavelkind).

3) Your vassal has an heir that is not of their dynasty and has another liege. This needs to be addressed asap or you will lose these titles when that vassal dies. This can happen for a number of reasons, not all of them I'm clear on, but I know it can be an issue if the vassal is in another de jure kingdom (happens in Iberia sometimes I've noticed), also can happen if your vassal was matrilinealy married for some silly reason to some duchess somewhere.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:30 AM   #4
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Just say NO to Gavelkind.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #5
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I always make my inheritance, for my eldest son to inherit all titles.
My other children dont like it, but screw them. If they are worthy, I will make them an Earl.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:59 AM   #6
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Gavelking brings important boons e.g. 30% larger demesme size and +5 relation. Just make sure that you only have one male (if you got agnatic-cognatic gavelkind) heir.

Here's what I do:

- Assassinate all male heirs but one
- Assassinate wife after one male heir is born

Not so evil:
- Conquer county with church, make pretender bishop of said church, bishop is removed from line of succession
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:10 AM   #7
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if your playing in ireland than it is no1 from 3pieceSuit list.
@ffabian: would it be sufficient to marry the males away in matrineal (or however this might be spelled) fashion?
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:52 PM   #8
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I'm pretty sure if you do that you're giving away your titles to other dynasties which I don't think I need to explain is a bad thing.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:46 PM   #9
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By all rights, the children of a matrilinial marriage should not be able to inherit title claims from their father. That's pretty much the reason why people were so against it back then, it meant the men were abandoning their families. (or being thrown out)

Of course, it doesn't stop people from doing something while the father is still alive, but if you send him far enough away, it's unlikely the locals will care about your land.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:07 AM   #10
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Yeah. Gavelkind, evenly distributes titles among your heirs(based on other laws, example: evenly among both girls and boys, etc).

So what happens, is when you die. You become the designated Heir.
But all your siblings, or cousins, or uncles(Dynasty members), equally get the titles divided out.

But as often happens, they want more power. And over time, they, or their own children, will betray you, or your grandchildren. In the long term, your just creating a Dynasty Civil War.

Which is why my preference is to have everything go to my eldest son ONLY. Afterwards, I hand out titles to other sons and family. AND because of the law being set to eldest gets everything, I am automatically the next to receive the title back, should they die. My Heir is next after me. So in the end, the title comes back under my direct control. I will almost never have a huge inter kingdom civil war. Unless I completely mismanage other stuff. Then its my own damn fault. (Harsh Taxes, low loyalty, ignoring ambitions of family and council, etc).

Yes Gavelkind lets you have a larger Demensce. But I have never had a problem in that regard. Because my Demensce keeps increasing everytime I create a Duchy. And I am 1 county away from creating King of Ireland Title at the moment. Which will increase my Demensce even more.
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