Succession Exploitation Not Proceeding As Planned

Mattrex · 02-23-2012, 03:29 AM

So I've been playing a game as the Byzantine Empire, and things have been going all right. I had a marriagable sister, so I went hunting for a suitable husband for her. I discovered, in the Kingdom of France, that the heir to the throne of France was in fact just an unlanded courtier who had somehow secured a place just behind the current king.

I suggested to him a matrilineal marriage with my sister. He accepted, and moved to Constantinople as my courtier. I then granted him a barony, making him into my vassal.

So, summary of situation: my sister is married to the direct heir of the Kingdom of France, and the heir is also my direct vassal.

Next, I thought, wouldn't it be a shame if the old king of France were to mysteriously meet his end, choking on his own blood? Theoretically, in my mind, this would result in his heir--my vassal--succeeding to the throne, resulting in me having the King of France as a vassal.

So I assassinated him. My vassal indeed became King of France, but simultaneously, stopped being my vassal. He was still married matrilineally to my sister, and his heir (my nephew), was of the Doukas dynasty rather than his, but he was no longer part of my empire.

So my question is, how exactly does this work? I've obviously missed some important factor, because what I thought would happen based on the laws of succession did not. Given this situation as it stands, would it be possible in the future to claim France, either by force or by having a vassal on the throne? Preferrably the latter--I'm not interested in a protracted war with an ally.

RemoraDFC · 02-23-2012, 04:37 AM

What happened is, he was your vassal through marriage to your sister.
Matrilineal means children become part of the females Dynasty.

So he went to the wifes court.
But you killed his father too soon.

He is a vassal through marriage only. He is not part of your Dynasty.
You cannot directly rule anyone outside your Dynasty. (except perhaps the very rare instance of being on your absolute last Dynasty member living, who is under-age and thus under regency).

But again. He is the Heir to France. Due to the Matrilineal marriage, the kids will be part of your Dynasty. But now he can still take steps to prevent you from taking his country. Adjusting his own laws to change the inheritance method. So your nephew only gains a claim, but does not become the next Heir(Elective for example).

There are a couple ways to have done things a little differently

How this would have worked, is your sister has a boy. Your Nephew. He is heir to France(but in your dynasty, your courtier). But if he assends the throne of France, he will leave your court, and you will gain an Alliance through marriage only. What you want instead, is to marry him to a direct decendent of yours. So that their kids become an Heir of YOUR Dynasty. Then eventually, your heir you control, will be come Monarch of France AND your Kingdom.

02-23-2012, 03:29 AM	#1
Mattrex Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 7	Succession Exploitation Not Proceeding As Planned So I've been playing a game as the Byzantine Empire, and things have been going all right. I had a marriagable sister, so I went hunting for a suitable husband for her. I discovered, in the Kingdom of France, that the heir to the throne of France was in fact just an unlanded courtier who had somehow secured a place just behind the current king. I suggested to him a matrilineal marriage with my sister. He accepted, and moved to Constantinople as my courtier. I then granted him a barony, making him into my vassal. So, summary of situation: my sister is married to the direct heir of the Kingdom of France, and the heir is also my direct vassal. Next, I thought, wouldn't it be a shame if the old king of France were to mysteriously meet his end, choking on his own blood? Theoretically, in my mind, this would result in his heir--my vassal--succeeding to the throne, resulting in me having the King of France as a vassal. So I assassinated him. My vassal indeed became King of France, but simultaneously, stopped being my vassal. He was still married matrilineally to my sister, and his heir (my nephew), was of the Doukas dynasty rather than his, but he was no longer part of my empire. So my question is, how exactly does this work? I've obviously missed some important factor, because what I thought would happen based on the laws of succession did not. Given this situation as it stands, would it be possible in the future to claim France, either by force or by having a vassal on the throne? Preferrably the latter--I'm not interested in a protracted war with an ally.

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02-23-2012, 04:37 AM	#2
RemoraDFC Join Date: Feb 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 41	What happened is, he was your vassal through marriage to your sister. Matrilineal means children become part of the females Dynasty. So he went to the wifes court. But you killed his father too soon. He is a vassal through marriage only. He is not part of your Dynasty. You cannot directly rule anyone outside your Dynasty. (except perhaps the very rare instance of being on your absolute last Dynasty member living, who is under-age and thus under regency). But again. He is the Heir to France. Due to the Matrilineal marriage, the kids will be part of your Dynasty. But now he can still take steps to prevent you from taking his country. Adjusting his own laws to change the inheritance method. So your nephew only gains a claim, but does not become the next Heir(Elective for example). There are a couple ways to have done things a little differently How this would have worked, is your sister has a boy. Your Nephew. He is heir to France(but in your dynasty, your courtier). But if he assends the throne of France, he will leave your court, and you will gain an Alliance through marriage only. What you want instead, is to marry him to a direct decendent of yours. So that their kids become an Heir of YOUR Dynasty. Then eventually, your heir you control, will be come Monarch of France AND your Kingdom.