Best way to get new lands?

vhailor · 02-28-2012, 10:13 PM

Hey

So i've been playing this game for a few hours and it's been pretty awesome. Although, I've been pretty static land-wise. I just don't know how to get them. Seems like the only way to get a valid casus belli is to forge claims. Are there other options to use to get new lands?

Also, how in hell do you usurp titles? I was duke of marovia (now king of Bohemia) and I've never been able to usurp anything... nothing is explained about usurping a title and I'm pretty clueless about how to advance in this game.

3pieceSuit · 02-28-2012, 10:27 PM

You can usurp duchy and kingdom titles (not sure how empires work).

To do so, you need to have at least 50% of the counties/duchies in the duchy/kingdom. You then need to pay a gold cost for a duchy title and a gold and piety cost for a kingdom title. They both grant prestige in addition to the titles.

Usurping these titles are the most reliable way to expand, as they grant a ducal CB for the remaining counties under the title.

But first you need to get 50% of the counties.

There are a number of methods to do this. The brute force method is to have your chancellor forge claims on the county you want. A lot of new players rely on this, and it can work if you are lucky. Personally I find this a waste of Chancellor time. I would rather have them focus on improving relations, either with your vassals, or your liege.

This leads into the next way to do it; improving relations with your liege, and hope he grants you some land after a conquest or when he inherits for lands than his demesne limit. This is is pretty circumstantial, and is really only reliable within the Byzantine Empire or HRE.

Another way to gain lands outside of holy wars, is to invite claimants to the counties you want to your court, then press their claims. This will not work if you are a count, or if their claim is of the same tier as your title though, so beware. You will also be required to press this claim successfully though warfare. This is a great way to get that last county so you can usurp the title, and then press the rest of the claims with the ducal CB.

Another way to expand, is the invasion CB. You basically request the Pope to grant you permission to take the land by conquest. This is historically how Guillaume le Batard became William the Conqueror in real history. You can only use this Cb if your target has more counties than you, and you have the piety to pay for it (and good papal relations maybe too).

The last, and the method that requires the most patience and finesse, is to marry your way into new land. Working your heirs into the successions of other titles and waiting for the holders to die of or assassinate them. This is usually the best way to expand if you are a single county without the military power to expand and absorb nearby counties.

vhailor · 02-28-2012, 11:11 PM

Thx, very informative info (reputation added).

So, for example, if I want a specific county but have no claims on it, I can invite a Count with claims on said county, then I would have a CB, cause I'd fight over the county for that said count in my court.

OK, I think I get it.

Otherwise, the only way to get new lands is from war? The only other way I found by myself was to manage to become an heir to a land and assassinate the current ruler.(tried that once, had 0 backer to help me... eh)

Tekkor · 02-29-2012, 12:21 AM

I also discuss these ways as well as show how the whole claimant tactic is done on one of the tutorial videos I did. Here is a link to that part in the video...

Ck2 Tutorial Questions - Tekk's Tavern

LordMarduk · 02-29-2012, 03:12 AM

It all depends, are you a king or a duke? The "best way" might change depending on the circumstances, in my current playtrough I started as the smaller swedish duke, forged claims for a county within my liege's kingdom while I prepare a heir to take the other county I wanted in the future, before my heir was big enough to marry the other duke's daughter to have an heir to their duchy I managed to forge claims for yet another county making sure I could usurp a title to get a reason to invade yet another county trough a ducal claim after I usurped the title, so when I was as strong as the other duke, saved some money for mercenaries and attacked them with my 3rd character (first and second died like 25 years old for some reason)

Having nearly every swedish land it was easy to secure my position as king, the swedish crown had election sucession rules so I excomunicated my ruler and initiated a war to make him abdicated the throne, I was second in line, plus I got a lot of prestige and some piety from this, now that I'm the king I'm taking lands from the tribes to the east while I forge claims against some dukes from denmark and spend some time trying to make my bloodline better, I also had to assassinate my heir and his 4 kids because they didn't look too good which was the reason for this: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2572898 lol.

Anyway the best advice about expanding I've read in this forum was to never tunnel vision, sure you can want a specific piece of land badly, but it doesn't stop you from planing ahead, as a king my demesne limit is already maxed so I may look into inviting claimants to my court more often too.

Edit: For clarification, yes I did take some lands from the king himself before I had the big duchy for myself, how? Opportunity, when he went to war against norway right after he lost a very large stack of units, I declared war for those claims lol

Edit2: Oh yeah! Another nice tip, if you have a claim on some lands protected by a huge liege like the HRE for example, one way to take them is to use your chancelor to reduce his relationship with his liege, if it's already too high you can kill him and do it with his heir instead, once he rebels, attack him.

Zorlond · 02-29-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3pieceSuit

There are a number of methods to do this. The brute force method is to have your chancellor forge claims on the county you want. A lot of new players rely on this, and it can work if you are lucky. Personally I find this a waste of Chancellor time. I would rather have them focus on improving relations, either with your vassals, or your liege.

This isn't a waste of time when it can lead into a cascade of territory De Jure claims. Imagine, one County gets you 50% of a Duchy, you usurp it, and capturing the other half gets you 50% of a Kingdom, you usurp that, and then go about capturing the other half of the Kingdom.

In that circumstance, your Chancellor's efforts are anything but wasted.

Also, if you notice someone with full claim to a Duchy (he directly controls all counties in it himself), place the Chancellor in that Duchy's territory. It's quite possible for him to falsify a claim on the whole Duchy. And the war gets you multiple counties for one event.

Add to that one other big factor. I've noticed that the pacifying efforts of a Chancellor with your own people is Temporary. The +25 Loyalty modifier goes away after a couple years. When I'm using my Chancellor this way, I am constantly, Constantly, having to go back and re-do counties that he's already worked on, within a single character's lifetime. And you're not really gaining much, either. No new territory, just a small increase in yearly funds and troops. Admittedly, never using a Chancellor to deal with a troublesome relationship is short-sighted, but using him to ONLY do this is equally short-sighted.

NovaStalker · 02-29-2012, 08:24 AM

The very best way to expand is through claimants. If you go to the shield for a county/duchy there's an option to check for claimants who could potentially hold that land (quick edit here: be aware that someone might not be able to claim a duchy but could get a county within that duchy which would allow you to usurp the duchy title yourself once the claimant holds that county and is your vassal). If you invite them to your court you can press their claim and get them as a vassal. The key however is that they get enormous relationship boost with you which more or less automatically puts them at 100 opinion of you. This is the perfect time to marry them or their heir to someone of your blood line in a matrilineal or normal marriage thus bringing their heir into your dynasty.

Clearly this is a long term method unless you get assassin happy but it's easily the most reliable way to expand into Christian lands.

And to add to what Zorland said, the same applies to your priest going around improving church relations. It's a temporary boost but might still be the best use of his time unless you've got lands to convert to your religion. On the other hand improving relation with your bishops gives a significantly larger benefit to you compared to making your nobles like you a tiny bit more.

vhailor · 02-29-2012, 09:13 AM

as a king, is it still possible to usurp duchies? Or counties for that matter. Reason I'm asking is because everytime I put my mouse over the usurp button, it says: cannot usurp counties or baronnies (something like that)

LordMarduk · 02-29-2012, 09:18 AM

^
Pretty sure you can, counties and baronies can't be usurped because they are all within a single territory, and they ARE a territory themselves, you can own a duchi having no counties within it's domain if you want as long as you have some land somewhere, anywhere.

vhailor · 02-29-2012, 09:33 AM

is it possible to usurp a duchy title of the HRE if I am also part of the HRE? Or do I have to declare war against another realm?

edit: in other words, I conquered a few lands from a duke who is also part of the HRE and when i wanted to usurp his title, the button was grayed out and "you cannnot usurp a title from the same realm" was written. Really??? This sucks...

vhailor · 02-29-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3pieceSuit

You can usurp duchy and kingdom titles (not sure how empires work).

Another way to gain lands outside of holy wars, is to invite claimants to the counties you want to your court, then press their claims. This will not work if you are a count, or if their claim is of the same tier as your title though, so beware. You will also be required to press this claim successfully though warfare. This is a great way to get that last county so you can usurp the title, and then press the rest of the claims with the ducal CB.

About that one. I tried it and it was a success. I invited a claimant to my court, then declared war with his claim. Thing is, once the war is over, he became an independant realm, not my vassal! Not really the conclusion I wanted...

NovaStalker · 02-29-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhailor

About that one. I tried it and it was a success. I invited a claimant to my court, then declared war with his claim. Thing is, once the war is over, he became an independant realm, not my vassal! Not really the conclusion I wanted...

You helped him claim a title that was your equal. If you're a duke only help county claimants, if you're a king you're basically fine since there are very very few king claimants.

vhailor · 02-29-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaStalker

You helped him claim a title that was your equal. If you're a duke only help county claimants, if you're a king you're basically fine since there are very very few king claimants.

no actually I was king. We won the war and he formed his own independant nation (that got his ♥♥♥ kicked soon after)

MEMANIA · 12-22-2012, 07:21 PM

I asked this one place, but I'll also ask it here.

I had a daughter, way down the line, matrilinneally (sp?) marry someone who had a claim who I invited to my court. They had a son. I then took over that duchy in the husband's name. I then assassinated the husband (my son-in-law.) My Grandson inherited the lands, and he was my "Equal" so I couldn't make him a vassal. I had originally assumed anybody part of my "Dynasty" would just be part of my kingdom/duchy/whatever and would be one of my vassals. I assume that isn't the case though. The only way I could gain that land now is if I played as my Grandson, and my Grandson inherited all the titles, etc. for my current lands, which would probably involve a LOT of deaths because my daughter was like my 4th or 5th heir.

Now, another question, the round-robin inheritence (gunderkind? I forget the name) does that give me claims to conquer my siblings if I felt like it and then make them vassals and/or just become the ruler of that land myself if I felt like it?

02-28-2012, 10:13 PM	#1
vhailor Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 5 Posts: 143	Best way to get new lands? Hey So i've been playing this game for a few hours and it's been pretty awesome. Although, I've been pretty static land-wise. I just don't know how to get them. Seems like the only way to get a valid casus belli is to forge claims. Are there other options to use to get new lands? Also, how in hell do you usurp titles? I was duke of marovia (now king of Bohemia) and I've never been able to usurp anything... nothing is explained about usurping a title and I'm pretty clueless about how to advance in this game.

02-29-2012, 03:12 AM	#5
LordMarduk Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 2 Posts: 79	It all depends, are you a king or a duke? The "best way" might change depending on the circumstances, in my current playtrough I started as the smaller swedish duke, forged claims for a county within my liege's kingdom while I prepare a heir to take the other county I wanted in the future, before my heir was big enough to marry the other duke's daughter to have an heir to their duchy I managed to forge claims for yet another county making sure I could usurp a title to get a reason to invade yet another county trough a ducal claim after I usurped the title, so when I was as strong as the other duke, saved some money for mercenaries and attacked them with my 3rd character (first and second died like 25 years old for some reason) Having nearly every swedish land it was easy to secure my position as king, the swedish crown had election sucession rules so I excomunicated my ruler and initiated a war to make him abdicated the throne, I was second in line, plus I got a lot of prestige and some piety from this, now that I'm the king I'm taking lands from the tribes to the east while I forge claims against some dukes from denmark and spend some time trying to make my bloodline better, I also had to assassinate my heir and his 4 kids because they didn't look too good which was the reason for this: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2572898 lol. Anyway the best advice about expanding I've read in this forum was to never tunnel vision, sure you can want a specific piece of land badly, but it doesn't stop you from planing ahead, as a king my demesne limit is already maxed so I may look into inviting claimants to my court more often too. Edit: For clarification, yes I did take some lands from the king himself before I had the big duchy for myself, how? Opportunity, when he went to war against norway right after he lost a very large stack of units, I declared war for those claims lol Edit2: Oh yeah! Another nice tip, if you have a claim on some lands protected by a huge liege like the HRE for example, one way to take them is to use your chancelor to reduce his relationship with his liege, if it's already too high you can kill him and do it with his heir instead, once he rebels, attack him. Last edited by LordMarduk: 02-29-2012 at 03:28 AM.

02-29-2012, 08:24 AM	#7
NovaStalker Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 57 Posts: 947	The very best way to expand is through claimants. If you go to the shield for a county/duchy there's an option to check for claimants who could potentially hold that land (quick edit here: be aware that someone might not be able to claim a duchy but could get a county within that duchy which would allow you to usurp the duchy title yourself once the claimant holds that county and is your vassal). If you invite them to your court you can press their claim and get them as a vassal. The key however is that they get enormous relationship boost with you which more or less automatically puts them at 100 opinion of you. This is the perfect time to marry them or their heir to someone of your blood line in a matrilineal or normal marriage thus bringing their heir into your dynasty. Clearly this is a long term method unless you get assassin happy but it's easily the most reliable way to expand into Christian lands. And to add to what Zorland said, the same applies to your priest going around improving church relations. It's a temporary boost but might still be the best use of his time unless you've got lands to convert to your religion. On the other hand improving relation with your bishops gives a significantly larger benefit to you compared to making your nobles like you a tiny bit more. Last edited by NovaStalker: 02-29-2012 at 08:27 AM.

02-29-2012, 09:33 AM	#10
vhailor Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 5 Posts: 143	is it possible to usurp a duchy title of the HRE if I am also part of the HRE? Or do I have to declare war against another realm? edit: in other words, I conquered a few lands from a duke who is also part of the HRE and when i wanted to usurp his title, the button was grayed out and "you cannnot usurp a title from the same realm" was written. Really??? This sucks... Last edited by vhailor: 02-29-2012 at 12:24 PM.

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02-28-2012, 10:27 PM	#2
3pieceSuit Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 2 Posts: 78	You can usurp duchy and kingdom titles (not sure how empires work). To do so, you need to have at least 50% of the counties/duchies in the duchy/kingdom. You then need to pay a gold cost for a duchy title and a gold and piety cost for a kingdom title. They both grant prestige in addition to the titles. Usurping these titles are the most reliable way to expand, as they grant a ducal CB for the remaining counties under the title. But first you need to get 50% of the counties. There are a number of methods to do this. The brute force method is to have your chancellor forge claims on the county you want. A lot of new players rely on this, and it can work if you are lucky. Personally I find this a waste of Chancellor time. I would rather have them focus on improving relations, either with your vassals, or your liege. This leads into the next way to do it; improving relations with your liege, and hope he grants you some land after a conquest or when he inherits for lands than his demesne limit. This is is pretty circumstantial, and is really only reliable within the Byzantine Empire or HRE. Another way to gain lands outside of holy wars, is to invite claimants to the counties you want to your court, then press their claims. This will not work if you are a count, or if their claim is of the same tier as your title though, so beware. You will also be required to press this claim successfully though warfare. This is a great way to get that last county so you can usurp the title, and then press the rest of the claims with the ducal CB. Another way to expand, is the invasion CB. You basically request the Pope to grant you permission to take the land by conquest. This is historically how Guillaume le Batard became William the Conqueror in real history. You can only use this Cb if your target has more counties than you, and you have the piety to pay for it (and good papal relations maybe too). The last, and the method that requires the most patience and finesse, is to marry your way into new land. Working your heirs into the successions of other titles and waiting for the holders to die of or assassinate them. This is usually the best way to expand if you are a single county without the military power to expand and absorb nearby counties.

02-28-2012, 11:11 PM	#3
vhailor Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 5 Posts: 143	Thx, very informative info (reputation added). So, for example, if I want a specific county but have no claims on it, I can invite a Count with claims on said county, then I would have a CB, cause I'd fight over the county for that said count in my court. OK, I think I get it. Otherwise, the only way to get new lands is from war? The only other way I found by myself was to manage to become an heir to a land and assassinate the current ruler.(tried that once, had 0 backer to help me... eh)

02-29-2012, 12:21 AM	#4
Tekkor Join Date: Jul 2010 Reputation: 95 Posts: 198	I also discuss these ways as well as show how the whole claimant tactic is done on one of the tutorial videos I did. Here is a link to that part in the video... Ck2 Tutorial Questions - Tekk's Tavern

02-29-2012, 09:13 AM	#8
vhailor Join Date: Nov 2010 Reputation: 5 Posts: 143	as a king, is it still possible to usurp duchies? Or counties for that matter. Reason I'm asking is because everytime I put my mouse over the usurp button, it says: cannot usurp counties or baronnies (something like that)

02-29-2012, 09:18 AM	#9
LordMarduk Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 2 Posts: 79	^ Pretty sure you can, counties and baronies can't be usurped because they are all within a single territory, and they ARE a territory themselves, you can own a duchi having no counties within it's domain if you want as long as you have some land somewhere, anywhere.

12-22-2012, 07:21 PM	#14
MEMANIA Join Date: Apr 2011 Reputation: 9 Posts: 61	I asked this one place, but I'll also ask it here. I had a daughter, way down the line, matrilinneally (sp?) marry someone who had a claim who I invited to my court. They had a son. I then took over that duchy in the husband's name. I then assassinated the husband (my son-in-law.) My Grandson inherited the lands, and he was my "Equal" so I couldn't make him a vassal. I had originally assumed anybody part of my "Dynasty" would just be part of my kingdom/duchy/whatever and would be one of my vassals. I assume that isn't the case though. The only way I could gain that land now is if I played as my Grandson, and my Grandson inherited all the titles, etc. for my current lands, which would probably involve a LOT of deaths because my daughter was like my 4th or 5th heir. Now, another question, the round-robin inheritence (gunderkind? I forget the name) does that give me claims to conquer my siblings if I felt like it and then make them vassals and/or just become the ruler of that land myself if I felt like it?