Sorry... obligatory rant found here.

Saurdaukar · 03-03-2012, 09:49 AM

Good morning/afternoon/evening all.

W. T. F.

When F1 2010 was released, I was happier than the proverbial pig in "stuff." I purchased it and... couldnt really play it.

I looked past the fact that it was yet another console port, I looked past the fact that I couldnt even use my mouse to navigate menues and I looked past the fact that even getting my G27 to actually work with the game was an unnecessary exercise in a title marketed as a "sim."

I read all the threads, tried all the fixes, but none of them worked for me. Kindly save the suggestion that it's my PC. The machine is more than capable of running three times the game.

Last night, I finally broke down and purchased the new "sim" offing from Codemasters, F1 2011.

What can I say? I was excited. I'll be in Texas in November for the inaugural GP of the Americas... Kimi is back... Webber has a fire in him that we;ve not seen before... it's going to be a great season.

To my surprise, all was going smoothly. I still had to use the arrow keys and the enter key to navigate menus... but who cares... I can see that Lotus-Renault car and Seb is going DOWN!

I figure I time trial would be appropriate to test how the cars feel and selected Spa since, of all the F1 offerings, its the circuit with which I am most familiar.

Mind you, I had already dont all the ancillary setup items for controls, etc, etc. I immediately found out that having a 900 degree wheel default to using 900 degrees of rotation is probably not a good default setting for an F1 game. After all, this isnt a Spec Miata "sim."

So, after figuring out the less-that-user-friendly method by which to "increase the sensitivity" of my wheel (and thus obtain a more appropriate physical wheel to in-game response ratio) I drove myself out of the sand and back on track.

Having watched the trailers, seeing the cars physically behave in an appropriate manner when travelling over curbing, etc, etc, and listening to all the Dev diaries and... dare I say... reading reviews... man was I disappointed.

An improvement from F1 2010? For sure. But a "sim?" Perhaps if you want to "live the life," but its still an arcade game in the car. Having also signed up for the closed beta of F1 Online, I would say that the Dev's have some serious work to do if they intend to compete with a not-to-be-mentioned, already established online racing sim (note lack of quotes since sarcasm is not required).

No matter... I sign up to drive with Truli and Lotus. I'll prove my mettle and score a ride in the black and gold car in short order.

Long story short... F1 2010 all over again... somehow, the time trials work... but when I go to drive out of the pits for my first practice session in Melborne; zee screen freezes!!11

DAMNIT! The moment of truth and the same error. No career mode tonight.

Now, all of that having been said, I have not yet mustered the mental energy necessary to go searching (again) for phantom fixes to allow the career mode to actually function on a non-console but - given all the threads last year - would one not assume Codemasters would take the most common friggen error to task? Really?

How much is Bernie paying these reviewers? I know the guy is a money-grubbing ♥♥♥♥♥ with a Napoleon complex but come one... selling a game that doesnt even work - twice?

When the license is up, I really hope another developer pays Bernie even more money and makes a decent stab at an F1 game that can do more than just look pretty (which it does).

CM has really dropped the ball, here. So have the reviewers. F1 2011 is no more a driving simulation than it is a worthy tool to indoctrinate an untapped North American fan base and pour even more cash into Napoleon's pocket.

I do not regret purchasing the game. I'll support just about anythihng F1, State-side, just to do my part to show FOM and the FIA that there IS a market here... but this effort tio create a proper driving sim falls well, well short of the mark.

Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.

Pete Danger · 03-03-2012, 10:46 AM

@ Saurdaukar.

Love your rant and agree with most of it.

The thing about F1 stateside (I'm in the UK) is that it has been there before; but not stayed. Bernie is a money grubber, as you say and what he has done; is put the USA in a position where they have had to build a facility that he knows will attract and make money. This is good for F1 in the states; because all the investors in the Texas track and facilities will be looking for a good return...they alone will do more for F1 stateside than any PC game will do. So maybe you should be thanking Bernie.

Here in the UK he threatened to take away the Silverstone, license if the track and facilities were not upgraded...the home of F1 no less...at the end of the day, he did Silverstone and the UK F1 fan base a favour.

I've been following the development of the Texas track and it looks as if you will end up with one of the best venues in the world...what you need now is a "Team USA" car; to represent North Americas interest in F1.

There are plenty of ways to race F1 on the PC in pure sim'...Codemasters games are not one of them; but when you overcome all the bugs, at least you can whizz round all the latest tracks, in the latest cars. with nice graphics. I don't play it any longer, but had some fun for a while.

DIJRP · 03-08-2012, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Danger

There are plenty of ways to race F1 on the PC in pure sim'...Codemasters games are not one of them

SIMBIN please buy F1 rights ...

Pete Danger · 03-08-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIJRP

SIMBIN please buy F1 rights ...

I think you will have a long wait!
I race F1 using Race07 with downloaded add on tracks, mostly from NoGrip Racing. Not all the tracks are up to date, but for instance, Silverstone is right up to date. There are 4 0r 5, single seat, open top cars to choose from, as you probably know anyway and of coarse the physics are very good. Like you, F1 2011 was not what I wanted, but in a way it tries to cater for all likes. I'm waiting for GTR3 to come out...Simbin are dragging it out a bit!.

Saurdaukar · 03-08-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Danger

1.) I've been following the development of the Texas track and it looks as if you will end up with one of the best venues in the world...what you need now is a "Team USA" car; to represent North Americas interest in F1.

2.) There are plenty of ways to race F1 on the PC in pure sim'

1.) The Texas circuit looks downright scary, if I'm honest. For whatever it's worth, with respect to my opinion, amateur racing and track days are my hobby (as budget allows...) and when I look at the technical nature of the new track, I can't help to think that the designer was possessed when he put ink to paper.

If I'm a race engineer trying to set up a car for the Texas track, I would have no idea where to start. The abrupt elevation changes in the high speed sections demand high downforce; but the main straight is so long that high downforce is exactly what one would not want. In the slower sections of the course, mechanical grip is absolutely necessary, but again would otherwise be helped along with as much aero as possible.

It will be a real challenge for the teams, for sure. That "hump" on the main straight is going to claim more than a few cars, I think as, regardless of the wings angle of attack, the car will get light and throttle management will be crucial. Complicating matters, that straight is, no doubt, where DRS will be used; further destabilizing the car - and I would guess the speed at that specific point on the track would probably be about 150-160MPH so loosing the rear end would not be recoverable.

Either way... I digress... spring is here and so is the season. Got carried away with shop talk.

With respect to an American team or driver; I don't even think that's necessary. We LOVE Brits. The American audience would be quick to latch onto Jenson, Lewis or even Webber because of the common language. Look at the US version of Top Gear that they rolled out. It's absolutely horrible. Most of us who are faithful to Jeremy, James and the Hamster (or Tiff, previously) go searching for the most recent UK episodes online. The hosts make the show and most Americans are suckers for British wit - half the population can probably quote Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail word-for-word.

Beyond that, we just don't have a development program for road racing on this side of the pond. A promising young driver would eventually need to go to Europe lest he be stuck making left hand turns on oval tracks for 500 miles at a time...

2.) What am I missing? So far as I know, F1 2011 is the only F1 title out there right now (unless you count older games or the Williams car in that not-to-be-mentioned online sim).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIJRP

SIMBIN please buy F1 rights ...

I have not Googled their corporate structure but I don't think SimBin would have the financial backing necessary to buy the rights on its own.

Though it pains me so say it, I think that they would need the backing of EA as a producer/developer.

Let us not forget that SimBin started out modding the EA-produced F1 games of the late 1990's and early 2000's which, so far as I can remember, had a physics engine far more realistic than this one.

Cheers.

jimgnarkill · 03-20-2012, 06:23 AM

2012 will be no different.

Codemasters are not the same company of old, and the F1 licence is just money. Lets be honest, it looks spectacular, the sounds are amazing, and the racing CAN be intense online.

But the core, the AI and actual gameplay is weak and arcadish.

I have no idea why they cant have a hardcore mode, with less grip and more twitchy, a bit more like the real cars. Whenever I play it (max sim settings always) Im always reminded more of F-Zero than GP Legends.

Ho Hum. Ill still buy 2012 when its under 20 quid, because thats all it is, a budget title in a premium disguise.

Such a shame.

skoops · 03-23-2012, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimgnarkill

But the core, the AI and actual gameplay is weak and arcadish.

I have no idea why they cant have a hardcore mode, with less grip and more twitchy, a bit more like the real cars. Whenever I play it (max sim settings always) Im always reminded more of F-Zero than GP Legends.

A hardcore mode would keep everyone happy

As with any game developer they want their titles to sell as many copies as possible. Make it to arcadie and you alianate the sim players make it to simie (Not sure if theres such a word) then you put off a lot of causal gammers which means less sales and less money.

Would like to hear more Ideas on what the sim community want instead of just saying this game sucks! Apart from bug fixes What would you like to see in future F1 titles and give details and ideas like the above post.

Pete Danger · 03-23-2012, 08:04 AM

I think we all know what the sim' community want in the game/s and if you want an example of satisfying both camps, so to speak, look to the past.

GP4 was/is a sim and although very old now, it catered for both camps and still does. GP4 can be set up so that the cars do virtually everything for you with very little input from the player except pressing the gas pedal!.
You can play it in an arcade manner totally. It is also a sim' of the high order and addresses everything a sim' player wants also.
The approach of trying to satisfy all comers, with a watered down sim' side to the game is never going to work.
Casual gamer's buy in general, racing games that you can just jump in the car and race, have a ball and crash out etc. Sim' fans want a game that is a more challenging approach, more time spent out of the car, messing about with settings in the garage and trying them out on track. Physics are all important and info' in the game like tyre, brake temps etc etc and the facilities to adjust settings whilst racing. Racing to the real world rules are also important and also sticking to them!
All these needs for both camps are catered for in the many racing type games to be had. The trouble with F1 is; that it is so popular a sport all over the world, that many people that would not normally play racing games are drawn to F1 games and that includes, of course, sim' fans.
The Codemasters F1 games are the only bang up to date F1 games available to the punters of all ilk. The graphics and the cars and the tracks are superb and life like to a very high degree, no complaints there.
Surely they can cater for both camps fully in the game, as Microprose and Geoff Crammond did way back.

jimgnarkill · 03-23-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoops

A hardcore mode would keep everyone happy

As with any game developer they want their titles to sell as many copies as possible. Make it to arcadie and you alianate the sim players make it to simie (Not sure if theres such a word) then you put off a lot of causal gammers which means less sales and less money.

Would like to hear more Ideas on what the sim community want instead of just saying this game sucks! Apart from bug fixes What would you like to see in future F1 titles and give details and ideas like the above post.

One thing I would dearly love to see other than harder to handle and more realistic handling, would be a good simulation of the 'MOTEC' style (not sure if teams still use it) data systems, for collecting all the info about a lap. When you lift off, when you brake and steering angle etc and the effects it has on your times.

Its quite amazing to me that Cm havent even tried to put in any telemetry at all. Look at NFS:Shift, that has an excellent practice telemetry system.

Im only just starting F1 2011 now, and I have to say the cars do handle a bit better, nto quite as 'on rails' as before, but this only makes the lack of telemetry even more of a glaring ommission.

Im only 2 races into the season, but fairs fair, I think its a far better game than 2010. I think it looks sharper, and I havent run into any of the bugs that used to break immersion in F1 2010, like the AI lining up behind you in a train during practice in 2012. The AI do seem to act a bit better.

I still recieved a 10 position penalty for rejoining the track in practice 100m behind an AI car though!

kondor999 · 04-02-2012, 09:27 AM

I am quite proficient with my CSR Elite wheel in the most demanding sims (iRacing, rFactor - DRM 2.0 and F1SR 1991 Historic, GPL, PnG 2 for GTR2) and I find the physics and overall handling in F1 2011 to be both fun and realistic. I have recorded laps and then compared them to reali-life in-car from qualifying and the verisimilitude is just amazing. I especially love how "loose" the car is, but also that it's recoverable in a realistic way. I've never driven open-wheel IRL, but in most sims the cars are actually much *more* difficult to sling around than in reality. One thing I hate are sims where you can't oversteer at all because the rear is just uncatchable. I've driven a modified BMW 323i at Road Atlanta and it was much easier to slide around than 99% of these "sim" cars. I've heard the same remark by many pro drivers who try sims, so I don't think it's just me.

One thing I would really recommend strongly is ModmateModcamsFINAL over at drivingitalia.net. They have some cams that simulate head movement which is incredibly useful to feel what the car is doing underneath you. I can now lighten up on my rear wing and have a great time, intentionally breaking away the rear and catching it pretty easily (like a real car). The revised camera really helps here, since I can see that the yaw rate is suddenly starting to change - and I know to correct instantly.

I also run F1 2011 on my laptop, using a Logitech Dual Action gamepad (cheap, but the best pad for driving ever). The secret here is to change it to a custom setup and then override the device type, changing it from 'gamepad' to 'wheel', and setting linearity to 50% and deadzones to 0. This gives you the ability to correct lighting-fast. Without setting it to "wheel", it slows down the inputs too much, making it smoother but at too much cost in quickness. This doesn't work well with most pads, but the Logitech Dual Action has very 'loose' analog sticks and a wide range of movement. I'm amazed that it works so well. I can turn laps within a second of my full CSR Elite setup - which is just amazing for a gamepad.

Overall, I disagree strongly that F1 2011 is an 'arcade' game. The laptimes and the way in which you drive are all quite realistic and quite comparable to the best hardcore sims out there. I love it.

Pete Danger · 04-10-2012, 04:18 PM

@kondor999

Anthony "Ant" Davidson, who was heavily involved in the making of F1 2011, said that it was harder to drive the cars in the game, than it was in real life. As you probably know, the "Ant" is an ex F1 driver and was a test driver for BAR during Jenson Buttons years there.
I myself have never driven an F1 car, but have always suspected that it was harder to control any cars in sim's, than a normal road car even.
I like the Simbin titles...there motto is: easy to drive, but hard to master.
I played both F1 2010 and 2011 and enjoyed them both, to a certain degree. The graphics and the tracks and also the cars take some beating, also as you say, the handling is quite good in 2011, not so brilliant in 2010.
Where some people like myself feel let down by the game is; that the whole game is centered round the racing and the eye candy. If you use the limited set up facilities to be found on the car monitor in the garage, you will soon realize that you can make a Williams as fast as a Red Bull or whatever. There is basically no difference in the cars performance wise, when you take the small bit of trouble to set them up at whatever track. I know some guys say that they got one of the top teams cars and found a difference...well maybe there is, if you just use the engineers settings; but if you set them up yourself, they are all much of the same.
I spend as much time piddling about with tweaking set ups as I do racing and in 2011 the tweaks soon run out and for me the interest in the game.
I will almost certainly buy F1 2012 when it comes out, as I am an F1 nut and I will enjoy it for 3 or 4 months as I did the other two.
I'm not a sim' snob (I know too little) but I do prefer having to work hard to get a well balanced car; to me that is where the enjoyment is...the racing is just the icing on the cake.

kondor999 · 04-12-2012, 08:54 AM

Well, I have to disagree again. And also agree a little.

1. There is a big difference between a Williams and a Red Bull in F1 2011. There is no way to turn a similar lap time (and by that, I mean within a second) in those two. This may come down to driving ability and control setup. But believe me - I've tried and it's impossible - unless you saddle the RB with a crappy setup. My "personal best" on each track is always the RB or the Mclaren. And believe me, I didn't want it that way! My favorite team is Lotus-Renault, and I always try harder in that car - to no avail!

2. I am also let down by the setup options, for the simple reason that they seem to only affect the *balance* of the car (in terms of oversteer). The difference in cornering between "1-1" and "11-11" on the wings is really minimal. That doesn't seem quite right. Overall, I think they're actually only letting us change these values in a very narrow range - thus rendering it impossible to really mess up (or really optimize) the car.

But, really, none of us possess the ability to actually drive one of these cars, especially when we are deprived of the lateral-G sensors in our inner ears. There simply *must* be some dumbing-down of the physics to make the game use-able, and it's why simulators will always be mainly for track familiarization and gaming out race strategy, rather than developing actual driving ability.

For me, F1 2011 is the closest you can get right now to "the real deal". I ran a 1/2 distance race at Sepang the other night, using the Lotus-Renault at Legend difficulty, all assists off - and it was just awesome. I've never once seen an F1 game get it just right like this. The last time I felt that way was playing Geoff Crammond's "World Circuit" on my Amiga back in 1992.

I've played all the rFactor F1 mods, and the best is F1SR 1991. You have to have a really nice cockpit with a good FFB wheel to have a chance, and I still think it would be easier to drive the cars in real life, but it's damn good. Each car is really unique and you can really screw up the setup if you're not careful. Hell, it even models diffuser stall! But I have to admit that it just doesn't "feel" quite right. I can't catch slides like a real car - once you get any yaw rate at all, it's over.

So, for me, F1 2011 is hands-down the best right now. The handling in F1 2010 was more like a flight sim, and I never could get into it. But this is just right in my book. See you on the track

Pete Danger · 04-13-2012, 04:11 AM

@ kondor999

Hi,well I have to go along with some of what you say...in fact, quite a large amount. Thinking back, on flying laps, Mclaren probably got the lions share of fastest times for me. Trouble is, that the minor teams end up with times too close to the big boys for the game to be real.

If you can compete at Legend (all assists off) then you are a competent player of the game and if the game was true blue; you would not be able to win the WDC in a minor team car...after the initial practice, practice and more practice, this is possible in both 2010 and 2011...look back at the earlier posts.

I consider myself sort of middle of the road in game driving ability (all my racing games) but in the two games we are talking about; it was a certainty, whatever car I was driving I could win the WDC in game... that is not real in my opinion.

On-line I ended up where I have already said my ability lies; sort of midway, now and again getting a podium, which for me is further proof that all is not well in the game.

Not to matter anyway...I enjoyed the game/s and will enjoy 2012 also, because it is F1.

kondor999 · 04-16-2012, 06:09 AM

@Danger
Well, that's really quite odd, since I cannot get anywhere near the front of the standings unless I use, at the very least, the Lotus-Renault. Anything less, and I can't make up grid places very well at all, and generally fall back.

One thing - I play 'fair' with the AI. I don't force them off-line by 'barging' them, and if I tap them too hard, I consider my race over. I'm running a mod which increases damage a lot, so that you'll lose a wing if you tap them at all - but if I somehow run into someone really hard - that's it for me.

Using 'proper' racing etiquette, I then get results which seem quite proper. As for qualifying times, I need to go back and check, as you may have a point. I think it would be most instructive to run the McLaren and the HRT back-to-back with the exact same setup just to see. IIRC, they were worlds apart, but maybe not? Anyway - the grids in 2012 certainly are tight, aren't they?

One thing - I wish someone would, one day, make an F1 game with the real idiosyncracies of the cars (as we learn them). For instance, the infamous off-throttle instability of the Lotus-Renault R31, caused by that crazy forward-facing exhaust concept. If they provided some GUI-based handling modding tool, how great would that be? You could have on-throttle grip, off-throttle, high and low-speed grip, drag on and off DRS, etc. These things have become the big differentiators of today's F1 cars (unlike engine power of days past). Just a dream...

kondor999 · 04-16-2012, 02:13 PM

@ Danger

I did some testing at Albert Park in Qualifying trim. I used the same setup (that I like) for each car. Results thus far, max effort:

Red Bull - 1.23.039
McLaren - 1.24.532
HRT -1.29.307

Real Life in 2011:

Red Bull - 1.23.529 (Vettel)
Mclaren - 1.24.307 (Hamilton)
HRT - 1.34.295 (Karthikeyan)

I think that's pretty amazing verisimilitude. And it demonstrates pretty huge differences in the cars. I can't imagine how anyone could, without cheating, take an HRT or Marussia and gain places. It's off the pace by over 6 seconds a lap!

03-03-2012, 09:49 AM	#1
Saurdaukar Join Date: Oct 2011 Reputation: 0 Posts: 5	Sorry... obligatory rant found here. Good morning/afternoon/evening all. W. T. F. When F1 2010 was released, I was happier than the proverbial pig in "stuff." I purchased it and... couldnt really play it. I looked past the fact that it was yet another console port, I looked past the fact that I couldnt even use my mouse to navigate menues and I looked past the fact that even getting my G27 to actually work with the game was an unnecessary exercise in a title marketed as a "sim." I read all the threads, tried all the fixes, but none of them worked for me. Kindly save the suggestion that it's my PC. The machine is more than capable of running three times the game. Last night, I finally broke down and purchased the new "sim" offing from Codemasters, F1 2011. What can I say? I was excited. I'll be in Texas in November for the inaugural GP of the Americas... Kimi is back... Webber has a fire in him that we;ve not seen before... it's going to be a great season. To my surprise, all was going smoothly. I still had to use the arrow keys and the enter key to navigate menus... but who cares... I can see that Lotus-Renault car and Seb is going DOWN! I figure I time trial would be appropriate to test how the cars feel and selected Spa since, of all the F1 offerings, its the circuit with which I am most familiar. Mind you, I had already dont all the ancillary setup items for controls, etc, etc. I immediately found out that having a 900 degree wheel default to using 900 degrees of rotation is probably not a good default setting for an F1 game. After all, this isnt a Spec Miata "sim." So, after figuring out the less-that-user-friendly method by which to "increase the sensitivity" of my wheel (and thus obtain a more appropriate physical wheel to in-game response ratio) I drove myself out of the sand and back on track. Having watched the trailers, seeing the cars physically behave in an appropriate manner when travelling over curbing, etc, etc, and listening to all the Dev diaries and... dare I say... reading reviews... man was I disappointed. An improvement from F1 2010? For sure. But a "sim?" Perhaps if you want to "live the life," but its still an arcade game in the car. Having also signed up for the closed beta of F1 Online, I would say that the Dev's have some serious work to do if they intend to compete with a not-to-be-mentioned, already established online racing sim (note lack of quotes since sarcasm is not required). No matter... I sign up to drive with Truli and Lotus. I'll prove my mettle and score a ride in the black and gold car in short order. Long story short... F1 2010 all over again... somehow, the time trials work... but when I go to drive out of the pits for my first practice session in Melborne; zee screen freezes!!11 DAMNIT! The moment of truth and the same error. No career mode tonight. Now, all of that having been said, I have not yet mustered the mental energy necessary to go searching (again) for phantom fixes to allow the career mode to actually function on a non-console but - given all the threads last year - would one not assume Codemasters would take the most common friggen error to task? Really? How much is Bernie paying these reviewers? I know the guy is a money-grubbing ♥♥♥♥♥ with a Napoleon complex but come one... selling a game that doesnt even work - twice? When the license is up, I really hope another developer pays Bernie even more money and makes a decent stab at an F1 game that can do more than just look pretty (which it does). CM has really dropped the ball, here. So have the reviewers. F1 2011 is no more a driving simulation than it is a worthy tool to indoctrinate an untapped North American fan base and pour even more cash into Napoleon's pocket. I do not regret purchasing the game. I'll support just about anythihng F1, State-side, just to do my part to show FOM and the FIA that there IS a market here... but this effort tio create a proper driving sim falls well, well short of the mark. Three cents cashed, adjusted for inflation.

04-02-2012, 09:27 AM	#10
kondor999 Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 5	DIsagree with your rant I am quite proficient with my CSR Elite wheel in the most demanding sims (iRacing, rFactor - DRM 2.0 and F1SR 1991 Historic, GPL, PnG 2 for GTR2) and I find the physics and overall handling in F1 2011 to be both fun and realistic. I have recorded laps and then compared them to reali-life in-car from qualifying and the verisimilitude is just amazing. I especially love how "loose" the car is, but also that it's recoverable in a realistic way. I've never driven open-wheel IRL, but in most sims the cars are actually much more difficult to sling around than in reality. One thing I hate are sims where you can't oversteer at all because the rear is just uncatchable. I've driven a modified BMW 323i at Road Atlanta and it was much easier to slide around than 99% of these "sim" cars. I've heard the same remark by many pro drivers who try sims, so I don't think it's just me. One thing I would really recommend strongly is ModmateModcamsFINAL over at drivingitalia.net. They have some cams that simulate head movement which is incredibly useful to feel what the car is doing underneath you. I can now lighten up on my rear wing and have a great time, intentionally breaking away the rear and catching it pretty easily (like a real car). The revised camera really helps here, since I can see that the yaw rate is suddenly starting to change - and I know to correct instantly. I also run F1 2011 on my laptop, using a Logitech Dual Action gamepad (cheap, but the best pad for driving ever). The secret here is to change it to a custom setup and then override the device type, changing it from 'gamepad' to 'wheel', and setting linearity to 50% and deadzones to 0. This gives you the ability to correct lighting-fast. Without setting it to "wheel", it slows down the inputs too much, making it smoother but at too much cost in quickness. This doesn't work well with most pads, but the Logitech Dual Action has very 'loose' analog sticks and a wide range of movement. I'm amazed that it works so well. I can turn laps within a second of my full CSR Elite setup - which is just amazing for a gamepad. Overall, I disagree strongly that F1 2011 is an 'arcade' game. The laptimes and the way in which you drive are all quite realistic and quite comparable to the best hardcore sims out there. I love it. Last edited by kondor999: 04-02-2012 at 09:30 AM.

04-12-2012, 08:54 AM	#12
kondor999 Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 5	Well, I have to disagree again. And also agree a little. 1. There is a big difference between a Williams and a Red Bull in F1 2011. There is no way to turn a similar lap time (and by that, I mean within a second) in those two. This may come down to driving ability and control setup. But believe me - I've tried and it's impossible - unless you saddle the RB with a crappy setup. My "personal best" on each track is always the RB or the Mclaren. And believe me, I didn't want it that way! My favorite team is Lotus-Renault, and I always try harder in that car - to no avail! 2. I am also let down by the setup options, for the simple reason that they seem to only affect the balance of the car (in terms of oversteer). The difference in cornering between "1-1" and "11-11" on the wings is really minimal. That doesn't seem quite right. Overall, I think they're actually only letting us change these values in a very narrow range - thus rendering it impossible to really mess up (or really optimize) the car. But, really, none of us possess the ability to actually drive one of these cars, especially when we are deprived of the lateral-G sensors in our inner ears. There simply must be some dumbing-down of the physics to make the game use-able, and it's why simulators will always be mainly for track familiarization and gaming out race strategy, rather than developing actual driving ability. For me, F1 2011 is the closest you can get right now to "the real deal". I ran a 1/2 distance race at Sepang the other night, using the Lotus-Renault at Legend difficulty, all assists off - and it was just awesome. I've never once seen an F1 game get it just right like this. The last time I felt that way was playing Geoff Crammond's "World Circuit" on my Amiga back in 1992. I've played all the rFactor F1 mods, and the best is F1SR 1991. You have to have a really nice cockpit with a good FFB wheel to have a chance, and I still think it would be easier to drive the cars in real life, but it's damn good. Each car is really unique and you can really screw up the setup if you're not careful. Hell, it even models diffuser stall! But I have to admit that it just doesn't "feel" quite right. I can't catch slides like a real car - once you get any yaw rate at all, it's over. So, for me, F1 2011 is hands-down the best right now. The handling in F1 2010 was more like a flight sim, and I never could get into it. But this is just right in my book. See you on the track Last edited by kondor999: 04-12-2012 at 08:59 AM.

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03-03-2012, 10:46 AM	#2
Pete Danger Join Date: Oct 2010 Reputation: 34 Posts: 954	@ Saurdaukar. Love your rant and agree with most of it. The thing about F1 stateside (I'm in the UK) is that it has been there before; but not stayed. Bernie is a money grubber, as you say and what he has done; is put the USA in a position where they have had to build a facility that he knows will attract and make money. This is good for F1 in the states; because all the investors in the Texas track and facilities will be looking for a good return...they alone will do more for F1 stateside than any PC game will do. So maybe you should be thanking Bernie. Here in the UK he threatened to take away the Silverstone, license if the track and facilities were not upgraded...the home of F1 no less...at the end of the day, he did Silverstone and the UK F1 fan base a favour. I've been following the development of the Texas track and it looks as if you will end up with one of the best venues in the world...what you need now is a "Team USA" car; to represent North Americas interest in F1. There are plenty of ways to race F1 on the PC in pure sim'...Codemasters games are not one of them; but when you overcome all the bugs, at least you can whizz round all the latest tracks, in the latest cars. with nice graphics. I don't play it any longer, but had some fun for a while.

03-20-2012, 06:23 AM	#6
jimgnarkill Join Date: Dec 2008 Reputation: 39 Posts: 273	2012 will be no different. Codemasters are not the same company of old, and the F1 licence is just money. Lets be honest, it looks spectacular, the sounds are amazing, and the racing CAN be intense online. But the core, the AI and actual gameplay is weak and arcadish. I have no idea why they cant have a hardcore mode, with less grip and more twitchy, a bit more like the real cars. Whenever I play it (max sim settings always) Im always reminded more of F-Zero than GP Legends. Ho Hum. Ill still buy 2012 when its under 20 quid, because thats all it is, a budget title in a premium disguise. Such a shame.

03-23-2012, 08:04 AM	#8
Pete Danger Join Date: Oct 2010 Reputation: 34 Posts: 954	I think we all know what the sim' community want in the game/s and if you want an example of satisfying both camps, so to speak, look to the past. GP4 was/is a sim and although very old now, it catered for both camps and still does. GP4 can be set up so that the cars do virtually everything for you with very little input from the player except pressing the gas pedal!. You can play it in an arcade manner totally. It is also a sim' of the high order and addresses everything a sim' player wants also. The approach of trying to satisfy all comers, with a watered down sim' side to the game is never going to work. Casual gamer's buy in general, racing games that you can just jump in the car and race, have a ball and crash out etc. Sim' fans want a game that is a more challenging approach, more time spent out of the car, messing about with settings in the garage and trying them out on track. Physics are all important and info' in the game like tyre, brake temps etc etc and the facilities to adjust settings whilst racing. Racing to the real world rules are also important and also sticking to them! All these needs for both camps are catered for in the many racing type games to be had. The trouble with F1 is; that it is so popular a sport all over the world, that many people that would not normally play racing games are drawn to F1 games and that includes, of course, sim' fans. The Codemasters F1 games are the only bang up to date F1 games available to the punters of all ilk. The graphics and the cars and the tracks are superb and life like to a very high degree, no complaints there. Surely they can cater for both camps fully in the game, as Microprose and Geoff Crammond did way back.

04-10-2012, 04:18 PM	#11
Pete Danger Join Date: Oct 2010 Reputation: 34 Posts: 954	@kondor999 Anthony "Ant" Davidson, who was heavily involved in the making of F1 2011, said that it was harder to drive the cars in the game, than it was in real life. As you probably know, the "Ant" is an ex F1 driver and was a test driver for BAR during Jenson Buttons years there. I myself have never driven an F1 car, but have always suspected that it was harder to control any cars in sim's, than a normal road car even. I like the Simbin titles...there motto is: easy to drive, but hard to master. I played both F1 2010 and 2011 and enjoyed them both, to a certain degree. The graphics and the tracks and also the cars take some beating, also as you say, the handling is quite good in 2011, not so brilliant in 2010. Where some people like myself feel let down by the game is; that the whole game is centered round the racing and the eye candy. If you use the limited set up facilities to be found on the car monitor in the garage, you will soon realize that you can make a Williams as fast as a Red Bull or whatever. There is basically no difference in the cars performance wise, when you take the small bit of trouble to set them up at whatever track. I know some guys say that they got one of the top teams cars and found a difference...well maybe there is, if you just use the engineers settings; but if you set them up yourself, they are all much of the same. I spend as much time piddling about with tweaking set ups as I do racing and in 2011 the tweaks soon run out and for me the interest in the game. I will almost certainly buy F1 2012 when it comes out, as I am an F1 nut and I will enjoy it for 3 or 4 months as I did the other two. I'm not a sim' snob (I know too little) but I do prefer having to work hard to get a well balanced car; to me that is where the enjoyment is...the racing is just the icing on the cake.

04-13-2012, 04:11 AM	#13
Pete Danger Join Date: Oct 2010 Reputation: 34 Posts: 954	@ kondor999 Hi,well I have to go along with some of what you say...in fact, quite a large amount. Thinking back, on flying laps, Mclaren probably got the lions share of fastest times for me. Trouble is, that the minor teams end up with times too close to the big boys for the game to be real. If you can compete at Legend (all assists off) then you are a competent player of the game and if the game was true blue; you would not be able to win the WDC in a minor team car...after the initial practice, practice and more practice, this is possible in both 2010 and 2011...look back at the earlier posts. I consider myself sort of middle of the road in game driving ability (all my racing games) but in the two games we are talking about; it was a certainty, whatever car I was driving I could win the WDC in game... that is not real in my opinion. On-line I ended up where I have already said my ability lies; sort of midway, now and again getting a podium, which for me is further proof that all is not well in the game. Not to matter anyway...I enjoyed the game/s and will enjoy 2012 also, because it is F1.

04-16-2012, 06:09 AM	#14
kondor999 Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 5	@Danger Well, that's really quite odd, since I cannot get anywhere near the front of the standings unless I use, at the very least, the Lotus-Renault. Anything less, and I can't make up grid places very well at all, and generally fall back. One thing - I play 'fair' with the AI. I don't force them off-line by 'barging' them, and if I tap them too hard, I consider my race over. I'm running a mod which increases damage a lot, so that you'll lose a wing if you tap them at all - but if I somehow run into someone really hard - that's it for me. Using 'proper' racing etiquette, I then get results which seem quite proper. As for qualifying times, I need to go back and check, as you may have a point. I think it would be most instructive to run the McLaren and the HRT back-to-back with the exact same setup just to see. IIRC, they were worlds apart, but maybe not? Anyway - the grids in 2012 certainly are tight, aren't they? One thing - I wish someone would, one day, make an F1 game with the real idiosyncracies of the cars (as we learn them). For instance, the infamous off-throttle instability of the Lotus-Renault R31, caused by that crazy forward-facing exhaust concept. If they provided some GUI-based handling modding tool, how great would that be? You could have on-throttle grip, off-throttle, high and low-speed grip, drag on and off DRS, etc. These things have become the big differentiators of today's F1 cars (unlike engine power of days past). Just a dream...

04-16-2012, 02:13 PM	#15
kondor999 Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 5	@ Danger I did some testing at Albert Park in Qualifying trim. I used the same setup (that I like) for each car. Results thus far, max effort: Red Bull - 1.23.039 McLaren - 1.24.532 HRT -1.29.307 Real Life in 2011: Red Bull - 1.23.529 (Vettel) Mclaren - 1.24.307 (Hamilton) HRT - 1.34.295 (Karthikeyan) I think that's pretty amazing verisimilitude. And it demonstrates pretty huge differences in the cars. I can't imagine how anyone could, without cheating, take an HRT or Marussia and gain places. It's off the pace by over 6 seconds a lap!