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Old 03-04-2012, 06:47 AM   #1
Caliente
 
 
 
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Main issues with CS: GO in the competetive scene.

These are my viewpoints after 40 hours gameplay. No need for a long introduction, but i have played ESL, CB, ED, CPL. I only refer to the competitive mode, not the casual. To me, you can try out whatever you feel like there. Most players and servers will play/run the competitive game mode.


Firstly; The core elements are nailed. You can really feel the skill difference from novice to better players. The game feels good and the T models are just great. The little things like that the Ts tuck the sidearm in their pants and the fuse on the molotov moves according to your movement is just great small features.

My main issues:

- FOG (No need to elaborate)

- Dust particles when shooting walls (Already been up alot. But this just makes it way harder to spray as its hard to see where the other player moves. A feature that should be greatly reduced or simply removed.)

- Stamina (Keep it short, as this is taken up plenty times before. Should be removed or at least let us do more jumps. As this is just a pain. The main issue here is the fact that you cant jump as high after you have fallen and you cant quickjump on top of things, like hut on Nuke.
I can see the reason for not being able to do 4-5 jumps. But you shall not be punished (not able to fully jump) for falling down half a feet. This at least need to be altered to only punish if you JUMP, not when you fall, hopefully removed all together and set a max speed you can move as a SV cvar.
- This also removes a lot of gaming modes like BHOP, trickz and fast climbing)

- Dropping guns (Currently you drop about straight down. This makes it a PAIN to drop to your teammates. If i just drop my weapon and go into the buy menu, i have picked up the weapon i dropped before i can buy a new one)

- Pickup weapon from 3M away (You can use "E" / Use to pick up a weapon from 3M away. I don't mind the E to swap, added for consoles obviously, but the length you are available to pickup a weapon from using "E" is way too far.)

- Delay on picking up something after dropping (when you drop something, there is approx a 1 second delay before you are able to pick anything up. I see no reason for this)

- 1 Flash (No need to elaborate)

- CT models are too big. (In previous CS the models were almost identical, and just had different skins. In GO Ct models are way bigger than the Ts.) <- Not a huge issue, but it is unbalanced.

- Gun models are too big. (yeah, we all know this. And almost everyone uses offset now. So why not just change the offset values we use to default?
- Even with Offset, the AK is too big)

- Too little feedback from gun (Alot of good posts on this, so i wont go into dept. Key word: Screen shaking)

- Flashbangs goes through edges of walls. You can notice that really well on angles such at this:

throwing flash:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/4654621...244?tab=public

Clearly behind the wall, still flashed:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/4654621...95/?tab=public

- Reload takes 1 sec longer than the animation. (So i reload, when the animation is done i quickswap and the gun is still not reloaded.)

- Acceleration is way too fast. (Try AWPing a angle, like ivy on Train, takes you too long to set up a perfect angle due to way too high strafe speed and high acceleration)

- Ts can see who on CT who has Kits and Ct can see if the bomb is up. This was removed from Source and everyone liked it.

- Skybox on DD2 is bad, almost all the good smokes and flashes are now blocked off...Why?

- Skybox on Train needs to be raised.

- Nades can take up to 196? (my highest) damage. This is a bad decision. Imagine rushing B on Dust2 and getting 2 pre nades in your face, all 5 dead in 2 seconds with no chance to fight back.
- Nades also seem to do random damage. I can sometimes stand beside one and loose 20HP, other times i am 3M away and die from it?

- Nades takes forever to throw. (When you are in a tight situation, and you need to get that nade or flash out FAST, it takes you forever compared to 1.6 or Source to throw it. This is just annoying as CS is supposed to be a fast and precise shooter)

- Loosing kit? (When you buy a kit, a few rounds later you will just loose it, even tho you havent died. Probably something to do with the fact that you get some dealt out)

- 400 for a kit. (Just make it 200 again. That is supposed to be cheap. yet to see anyone who agrees with 400 for a kit)

// EDIT:

The grey fadeout after a round (It has to be removed. The round aint over when one team gets the round. Exit frags are an important part of CS.)

Money system (Just give us the Source money system. Its easy but yet has dept.)

Some more i found:

Delay to plant bomb when you jump into spot. (if you jump up on something to plant you have to wait 1-2 seconds to plant. You just get the message "You have to be standing on the ground to plant the bomb". This also occurs if you run onto the spot, you have to stand dead still to plant.)

Tracers. (I asumed this would be gone pretty fast, but this is just another thing that lowers the skill cap. If you are fired upon you can see the red on your screen as an indicator of where he shoots from, you also have sound that pinpoints his position. So the tracers are just a waste)

Bomb is too small. (in my opinion the bomb is to small for the plant sites. I see a lot of people who are unable to find the bomb and its just frustrating. It also blends really well with the A spot on train)

Cant defuse a bomb thats higher than you. (if the bomb is planted elevated to your feet, it sometimes bugs out and its a pain to defuse it.)

Feel free to disagree and post why.

Last edited by Caliente: 03-07-2012 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Trying to make this WOT readable.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:18 AM   #2
Dave348
 
 
 
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Good points, I agree, I think they have all been mentioned before but it's nice to keep hammering valve with what we want changed.

+1
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:24 AM   #3
npa6600
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliente View Post
My main issues:

- FOG (No need to elaborate)
- Yup.

- Dust particles when shooting walls (Already been up alot. But this just makes it way harder to spray as its hard to see where the other player moves. A feature that should be greatly reduced or simply removed.)
- I have to disagree with you there. One of the things you always had to look out for in 1.6 was sparks on walls to see where enemies were firing from if they were out of your line of sight. By making this more obvious newer players can learn to do it faster. Maybe it can be toned down slightly, but on the whole I feel it's a good addition.

- Stamina (Keep it short, as this is taken up plenty times before. Should be removed or at least let us do more jumps. As this is just a pain. The main issue here is the fact that you cant jump as high after you have fallen and you cant quickjump on top of things, like hut on Nuke.
I can see the reason for not being able to do 4-5 jumps. But you shall not be punished (not able to fully jump) for falling down half a feet. This at least need to be altered to only punish if you JUMP, not when you fall, hopefully removed all together and set a max speed you can move as a SV cvar.
- This also removes a lot of gaming modes like BHOP, trickz and fast climbing)
- Agreed, you should be able to string together 3 jumps at the most. That way you can cross from the left to the right side of Long A on Dust 2, and give the AWP camper sitting at A less of a chance to hit you.

- Dropping guns (Currently you drop about straight down. This makes it a PAIN to drop to your teammates. If i just drop my weapon and go into the buy menu, i have picked up the weapon i dropped before i can buy a new one)
- Something that's been slightly overlooked but a very good point.

- Pickup weapon from 3M away (You can use "E" / Use to pick up a weapon from 3M away. I don't mind the E to swap, added for consoles obviously, but the length you are available to pickup a weapon from using "E" is way too far.)
- Since it's mainly going to be console players who use this, I don't see this as being that much of a problem.

- Delay on picking up something after dropping (when you drop something, there is approx a 1 second delay before you are able to pick anything up. I see no reason for this)
- I feel much the same about this.

- 1 Flash (No need to elaborate)
- Being able to carry 2 flashes was one of the most tactical parts of CS. Having only one, as well as being limited to 3 nades in total, limits your ability to test the water before entering an area so to speak.

- CT models are too big. (In previous CS the models were almost identical, and just had different skins. In GO Ct models are way bigger than the Ts.) <- Not a huge issue, but it is unbalanced.
-Not sure if the hitboxes are any larger, so I'm not gonna comment on this one.

- Gun models are too big. (yeah, we all know this. And almost everyone uses offset now. So why not just change the offset values we use to default?
- Even with Offset, the AK is too big)
[COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]- Everything in the beta is a placeholder for now, so I wouldn't be too surprised if it's fixed very late into the beta. Just look at the nova, it's tiny![/COLOR]

- Too little feedback from gun (Alot of good posts on this, so i wont go into dept. Key word: Screen shaking)
- I'm getting more used to the current system of feedback we have, that said, I do believe screen shake would be better. What I would add is that the tracers aren't really going anywhere near where your bullets are so if we're not getting screen shake, accurate tracers could be implemented as another form of feedback.

- Flashbangs goes through edges of walls. You can notice that really well on angles such at this:

throwing flash:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/4654621...244?tab=public

Clearly behind the wall, still flashed:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/4654621...95/?tab=public
-Not noticed this, won't comment.

- Reload takes 1 sec longer than the animation. (So i reload, when the animation is done i quickswap and the gun is still not reloaded.)
-I think that's always been the case in CS.

- Acceleration is way too fast. (Try AWPing a angle, like ivy on Train, takes you too long to set up a perfect angle due to way too high strafe speed and high acceleration)
- Movement was one of the first things that was patched but I too think it still needs a fair amount more work. CS is about pixel perfect aiming/movement, so if we're not able to stop on a dime, and move pixels at a time, it's going to change the entire ethos of the game to a more run and gun affair.

- Ts can see who on CT who has Kits and Ct can see if the bomb is up. This was removed from Source and everyone liked it.
- I reported this in the bugs thread. Essentially a form of radar hacking, since you can see the kits of live CT's running around the map.

- Skybox on DD2 is bad, almost all the good smokes and flashes are now blocked off...Why?
- Skybox on Train needs to be raised.
- Skyboxes are going to be raised/lowered eventually. At current you can skywalk all across inferno without even needing so much as a boost.

- Nades can take up to 196? (my highest) damage. This is a bad decision. Imagine rushing B on Dust2 and getting 2 pre nades in your face, all 5 dead in 2 seconds with no chance to fight back.
- Nades also seem to do random damage. I can sometimes stand beside one and loose 20HP, other times i am 3M away and die from it?
- The damage a nade does is highly dependant on whether or not the enemy has Kevlar now. Kevlar seems to have a much more pronounced role in this game than any of the others before. Whereas before, the main role was to give you a chance to live if you got "dinked" it now does a lot more.

- Nades takes forever to throw. (When you are in a tight situation, and you need to get that nade or flash out FAST, it takes you forever compared to 1.6 or Source to throw it. This is just annoying as CS is supposed to be a fast and precise shooter)
- I agree completely. It's odd, because they seem to speeding up certain aspects of the game while slowing down others.

- Loosing kit? (When you buy a kit, a few rounds later you will just loose it, even tho you havent died. Probably something to do with the fact that you get some dealt out)
- Not noticed this, but it needs to be fixed if it's happening.

- 400 for a kit. (Just make it 200 again. That is supposed to be cheap. yet to see anyone who agrees with 400 for a kit)
- Making the kit $400 is essentially making CT harder. It used to be that you had to make the choice between a kit or a flash/smoke, now it's more a choice of kit or kevlar. Personally, I choose kevlar everytime.

Feel free to disagree and post why.
Key:
Lime: Agree
Orange: Half Agree/Not Sure
Red: Disagree

Last edited by npa6600: 03-04-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:25 AM   #4
UltrixPrime
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliente View Post
Most players and servers will play/run the competitive game mode.
This has never been the case and almost certainly never will be. If this game succeeds as it's likely to, there will be 100,000+ or more servers, public servers, just as was the case with CSS and they won't be for competition. They'll be for the next 20,000,000 or more players that come along after the CSS 20,000,000.

And if there aren't? Why then the entire endeavor will have been a total failure.

Aside from that, your other points seemed like things that are hard to disagree with as they're relevant to playing the game in general.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:34 AM   #5
Caliente
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npa6600 View Post
Key:
Lime: Agree
Orange: Half Agree/Not Sure
Red: Disagree
I appreciate the feedback people!

I disagree on some of them tho:

Regarding the "E" to pickup weapons. Even I use it now, if someone dies to an AWP and his gun is in line of fire, i use E to snatch it without he being able to even see me. It should be removed from the PC version.

And the reload delay is not that high in Source or 1.6. Its there, but far from as bad. Its pain when you kill someone and run to plant while reloading.

The nades are OP, you dont buy kevlar on a ECO rush...Too me this is a game changing mechanic. I easily get a 100+ damage nade on ivy every 3. round or so. Its a new "Anti peak" method.

UltrixPrime: I have a hard time seeing any solid communities run casual mode on their servers, due to the fact that people cant boost and kevlar is automatic given. probably going to be most used on consoles and fun servers.

Last edited by Caliente: 03-04-2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:47 AM   #6
Wonderglue
 
 
 
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I agree with all things you posted. The nades need serious fixing. I mean, you deal 20 damage to someone who has kevlar but 150 to someone who doesn't. That seems unfair. It would be better if it's 30-40 with kevlar, and 90 at point blank without kevlar. So you don't actually kill someone with it, but weaken him. Or to pick weak targets with low hp.

Also. Kevlar should deplete a bit faster.

They also need to add a silencer to M4 to balance the cost of the weapon.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:52 AM   #7
npa6600
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliente View Post
I appreciate the feedback people!

I disagree on some of them tho:

Regarding the "E" to pickup weapons. Even I use it now, if someone dies to an AWP and his gun is in line of fire, i use E to snatch it without he being able to even see me. It should be removed from the PC version.

And the reload delay is not that high in Source or 1.6. Its there, but far from as bad. Its pain when you kill someone and run to plant while reloading.

The nades are OP, you dont buy kevlar on a ECO rush...Too me this is a game changing mechanic. I easily get a 100+ damage nade on ivy every 3. round or so. Its a new "Anti peak" method.

UltrixPrime: I have a hard time seeing any solid communities run casual mode on their servers, due to the fact that people cant boost and kevlar is automatic given. probably going to be most used on consoles and fun servers.
Just jumped into CS 1.6 and Source to check a few things, and you're right, the reload delay isn't as high as it is in GO, it's still there though. That's an easy fix however, just slow down the reload animation, or speed up the reload time itself.

Besides the first couple of days back in November I don't think I've used E to pick anything up. I can see your point about it's use to pick something up without leaving cover, but maybe that's a good thing.

As for the nades, I quite like the fact they're OP. They're great for clearing out campers, and teaching people where not to stand. Maybe they could be toned down a bit, but I like the fact that it's slightly more realistic.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:55 AM   #8
npa6600
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Wonderglue View Post
They also need to add a silencer to M4 to balance the cost of the weapon.
There is a sound file for a silenced M4, but it could just be an artefact from the older games. I doubt they're going to remove it completely though.
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:58 AM   #9
Caliente
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by npa6600 View Post
Besides the first couple of days back in November I don't think I've used E to pick anything up. I can see your point about it's use to pick something up without leaving cover, but maybe that's a good thing.

Not sure how i feel about this to be honest. It can be good, can be annoying. I do think the length you can pick it up from should be reduced tho.

As for the nades, I quite like the fact they're OP. They're great for clearing out campers, and teaching people where not to stand. Maybe they could be toned down a bit, but I like the fact that it's slightly more realistic.
Sort of yes. But it will make eco rushes almost impossible. Nading down mid on inferno = easy kills. I dont mind increasing the nade dmg but it is too high now in my opinion.
No reason for the color choice.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:03 AM   #10
Mr. Someguy
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npa6600 View Post
- Acceleration is way too fast. (Try AWPing a angle, like ivy on Train, takes you too long to set up a perfect angle due to way too high strafe speed and high acceleration)
- Movement was one of the first things that was patched but I too think it still needs a fair amount more work. CS is about pixel perfect aiming/movement, so if we're not able to stop on a dime, and move pixels at a time, it's going to change the entire ethos of the game to a more run and gun affair.
Are you implying it wasn't already?
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:04 AM   #11
Caliente
 
 
 
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Are you implying it wasn't already?
How is it a run and gun?
You have a HUGE advantage on a running player if you are standing still, even more when crouching.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #12
ShoOT001
 
 
 
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Wow well done Caliente! Rep+ I do not know everything about CS:GO but alot I saw many videos with this things you posted in it like the Grenades, but i think i will be ok. If you buy Ammor the HE will do sow low damage ( if im right ). The thing with the models should get fix because the HEAD is on a different level so you have to AIM higher on the CT's then the T's and this is not balanced. They also should set the kit to 200$ like in the previous versions. The thing with "loosing their kits" is stupid. If you buy one you should have it until you die or switch the Team. They have to fix the SKYBOX in de_dust2 because it is IMPORTANT to throw Flashes or Smokes over Houses or something else to fake something or FLASH the areas. Stamina for CS:GO is abit stupid. I could understand it if you can jump ( like you said ) 3-5 Jumps and then you will get slower but after one or two jumps you can't even jump? stupid..
So i have a question left with the thing if you drop weapons they will be under you. Is it possible to Jun&Jump Throw? so if a Teammate needs a weapon you can run then jump and the drop your weapon so the weapon will "fly" to your Teammate?
But yea once again nice Post Caliente! but sorry for my bad english. I hope you can understand this :P

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:36 AM   #13
Caliente
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by ShoOT001 View Post
Wow well done Caliente! Rep+ I do not know everything about
But yea once again nice Post Caliente! but sorry for my bad english. I hope you can understand this :P

ShoOT001
Thanks, greatly appreciated! Your english is far beyond average!

Last edited by Caliente: 03-04-2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #14
makemap
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliente View Post

UltrixPrime: I have a hard time seeing any solid communities run casual mode on their servers, due to the fact that people cant boost and kevlar is automatic given. probably going to be most used on consoles and fun servers.

This is what the Dev's should do. Leave Competitive at strictly 5 vs 5 or more(Strict rules). Keep all the Competitive stuff in casual(no free armor! and allow us to set server settings. No one likes divided gameplay, casual mode is a turn off right now.) Make a Mod specific server side for PC and possible console(if they allow mods)

Last edited by makemap: 03-04-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #15
rowin
 
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Can't seem to disagree with anything you suggested.
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