Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Total War: SHOGUN 2

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #1
Apheirox
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Reputation: 172
Posts: 1,055
Meh, pretty disappointing I guess. Game seems unpolished, unfinished.

What a letdown after the insanely impressive Rome (my introduction to the series, following the latest sale). I'm finding there's too many unfinished, incomplete or flawed things about Shogun.

The most aggrevating aspect is the performance and stability - or rather, the lack of it. I'm playing on a powerful laptop so I'm not exactly expecting glory, but it's pretty ridiculous. I run all other games quite well but Shogun really has my PC struggling. I'm running it on so low settings it actually looks worse than Rome (mainly because the more advanced shader settings completely destroy performance). I have no doubt that it can look spectacular if you have the hardware, but the optimization seems underwhelming, to say the least.

Stability - the game crashes, constantly and incessantly. Particularly annoying is its habit of shutting down after having decisively won a battle and the game failing to return to the campaign map, stuck on the loading screen.

Then there are the gameplay problems itself. Apparently the developers couldn't make up their minds about what the rules of the game are and so we have the advisor contradicting the Encyclopedia and the game itself. As an example, the advisor claims upgrading your Castle will allow you to more efficiently tax the populace but this appears to be completely false - though it could of course let you simply raise taxes due to the greater level of repression. Same goes for the road network - advisor asks you to improve the quality of roads, but it appears to have absolutely no effect on trade whatsoever.

Another thing that absolutely boggles my mind with its sheer stupidity is the lack of information you are presented with on the unit flags on the battle map. There's no way to distinguish between yari ashigaru and yari samurai other than to zoom up close - which is not what you want to be doing in a heated battle. All cavalry appears to share the same icon, as well - including the general! It may be easier for those of you with high-end PC's where the detail level probably makes it easier to distinguish units but you'll no doubt still have to zoom in a lot. Having all your units look the same green blob doesn't exactly make it easier to command them. Contrast with Rome again where unit variety is not only much greater (due to portraying the many nations surrounding the Roman Empire and not just Japan, however interesting Japanese warfare is) but also have far greater visual clarity.

I've seen the AI do some pretty nice stuff, but I've also seem it do the most ridiculous things, namely with the generals. Seems AI suffers from the same 'suicidal commander' syndrome that plagues Rome also where the AI enjoys throwing away its leader by charging the bodyguard into hopeless situations - making it a cakewalk to roll all over the AI.

It's such a shame, because the game has an otherwise fantastic presentation and it's clear there was a lot of talent and detail invested into this game. So, why the annoying half-assed unfinishedness and inconsistency to break the illusion? Sad.

Last edited by Apheirox: 03-11-2012 at 10:14 AM.
Apheirox is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 10:50 AM   #2
daniu
 
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Reputation: 145
Posts: 1,266
Speak for yourself... game doesn't crash ever for me, and don't expect "polished" when playing on a laptop.
Rest is pure l2p.
daniu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #3
3asytarg3t
 
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Reputation: 67
Posts: 980
LOL. This is like a self created necro.

Which honestly is even funnier than if you'd gone to the trouble to hunt down a March of last year review here and revived it with this rant.
3asytarg3t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 12:50 PM   #4
kanorain
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 8
Posts: 102
I have NEVER had a crash in TWS2 (play it weekly since release date) Takes about 2 minutes to launch that's it's only downfall.

The only negative thing I have to say about Shogun 2 is that FotS isn't out yet. Like daniu said though, most of your issues are l2p and invest time using google...
kanorain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 01:22 PM   #5
daelin4
 
daelin4's Avatar
 
Moderator - Total War
Join Date: May 2011
Reputation: 125
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apheirox View Post
The most aggrevating aspect is the performance and stability - or rather, the lack of it. I'm playing on a powerful laptop so I'm not exactly expecting glory, but it's pretty ridiculous. I run all other games quite well but Shogun really has my PC struggling. I'm running it on so low settings it actually looks worse than Rome (mainly because the more advanced shader settings completely destroy performance). I have no doubt that it can look spectacular if you have the hardware, but the optimization seems underwhelming, to say the least.
Shogun2 is by far the most finicky TW game. You'll have some people play it with no apparent problems, and some with a lot of problems, on the same computer. There are however solutions to a lot of problems, though some people refuse to take the effort to utilize them and sit there pouting. Sad but true, there have been people who say they won't take technical support because they believe it should all be fixed for their customized computers beforehand.
What exactly is your "powerful laptop" specs?

Quote:
Then there are the gameplay problems itself. Apparently the developers couldn't make up their minds about what the rules of the game are and so we have the advisor contradicting the Encyclopedia and the game itself. As an example, the advisor claims upgrading your Castle will allow you to more efficiently tax the populace but this appears to be completely false - though it could of course let you simply raise taxes due to the greater level of repression. Same goes for the road network - advisor asks you to improve the quality of roads, but it appears to have absolutely no effect on trade whatsoever.
What the game says about certain features does not always easily explain what they actually do. Upgrading your castle doesn't in itself raise economic growth, but since it unlocks an additional construction slot and increases repression you can technically boosts economic growth which leads to more income from taxes. Or if you want it allows you to raise taxes without risking revolts. The better strategy is to have huge economic growth and minimal tax rate. 10% of a million is larger than 50% of a thousand.

Quote:
Another thing that absolutely boggles my mind with its sheer stupidity is the lack of information you are presented with on the unit flags on the battle map. There's no way to distinguish between yari ashigaru and yari samurai other than to zoom up close - which is not what you want to be doing in a heated battle. All cavalry appears to share the same icon, as well - including the general! It may be easier for those of you with high-end PC's where the detail level probably makes it easier to distinguish units but you'll no doubt still have to zoom in a lot. Having all your units look the same green blob doesn't exactly make it easier to command them.
While its true they could have made unit flags a little more descriptive, I usually just select the unit cards. Or at worse use slow motion. This isn't any different from Rome. And no, detail level does not help.
daelin4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 02:08 PM   #6
Apheirox
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Reputation: 172
Posts: 1,055
Thanks for a decent post, daelin.

I'll just address your responses in order without quoting them.

1) I have been playing around with the gfx settings a lot and nothing seems to stabilize the game. I've also done some searching which left me with the impression that a lot of people are frustrated and that there simply doesn't seem to be solutions to the problems they're having. Since you say there are fixes, however, I'll look around some more.

As for my specs, it doesn't really matter - it's enough to run all other games I own respectably - not always on top-notch settings, but always without crashes. The problems could be on my end but given the sheer volume I'm having I believe some must be game-related.

2) My point is that a closer look at the game reveals that CA must have had to finish the game in a hurry since certain features are either missing or incorrectly documented through the encyclopedia/advisor. You said it yourself, what the game says about certain features is not necessarily correct. If you hit bankruptcy, for instance, the advisor will recommend that you upgrade your castle to boost the tax rate - I guess this must have been a feature that was scrapped - higher level castles taxing a greater percentage, much like the effet installing a Metsuke has - but the advisor message was just left as-is. That's pretty sloppy! This is just one example - I've run across several of these things.

As for the castle and economics system itself, it doesn't make much sense to me. True, obviously, as you say, higher level castle upgrades allow for more building slots, but apart from that: isn't it a bit weird that it has no economic effect? In fact, it has an adverse effect since it consumes your food surplus! Hence, it appears that the most efficient way to run your economics is to have all your cities be shoddy little towns rather than castles and citadels. Doesn't that seem broken to you? In Rome, huge cities yielded a far greater economic output which seems more reasonable to me.

I also don't understand the benefit of higher level castles' greater repression: How is this valuable? Unless a city has a foreign religion or you've been looting a lot and have a dishonourable daimyo, +4 repression is all you'll ever need since that's enough to keep 'normal' level taxed population content. Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but I get the feeling the economic system wasn't really finished and we're left with something not quite coherent.

3) But it is quite different from Rome. In that game I was never in doubt if it was a unit of Hastati or Velites, Nubian Spearmen or Archers. Here, all the units - and their icons - look much the same unless you zoom up close. I also don't want to have to use slowmotion or whatever to properly command my units - come on, this is what, the 5th iteration of the series? It shouldn't be regressing with regard to such basic features!

Last edited by Apheirox: 03-11-2012 at 02:12 PM.
Apheirox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 04:57 PM   #7
kanorain
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 8
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apheirox View Post
1)
As for my specs, it doesn't really matter - it's enough to run all other games I own respectably - not always on top-notch settings, but always without crashes. The problems could be on my end but given the sheer volume I'm having I believe some must be game-related.
This is really where I should have stopped reading. 'As for my specs, it really doesn't matter.' Since you seem to know everything about computers, I don't think anyone here can help you. Of course if you change your mind I'm sure some people would love to help you out with the perfect tweeks for your setup.


Truly, truly, truly... the rest of your post seems like you just want to rip apart the smallest details. Things that YOU AS A PLAYER are UNWILLING to learn about or PERSONALLY want changed. So I will not comment on them for those reasons.
kanorain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2012, 05:16 PM   #8
daelin4
 
daelin4's Avatar
 
Moderator - Total War
Join Date: May 2011
Reputation: 125
Posts: 567
1) Without knowing much about your technical situation it is impossible to give help. If that's not what you're here for, then don't bother posting. The fact that you have a "powerful laptop" (considering how you describe it I'm guessing you actually meant it's NOT?)

2) There are indeed some little bits here and there that don't go together, as well as some info that were not pointed out in the Encyclopedia (like how each upgrade gives respective unit type an extra experience point for recruits) the game is more like a puzzle in the dark. The parts are there and will go together once you find them. The rest I don't know, since I turn off the advisor.

In Rome part of income was population of the city; the more you have, the more taxes, and ability to unlock the next city tier. In Shogun2 this is replaced with town wealth and growth. And unlike Rome where the build limit was your city tier, the limit to structures are first unlocks (prerequisites fulfilled before you can build it), money, and whether you have a slot available, which can only be increased by castle upgrades. In such case a smart player will devote certain provinces to certain tasks. There will be economic provinces whose specialty will benefit economics, and military provinces whose use are best left to dojos.

I find that only the Fortress level castle giving three slots for every province, to be sufficient., maybe more for the military ones if you wish for them to be a bit more versatile. Three slots for a market chain, ninja chain, and temple/church. These are the only structures you can build that boost economy; the rest are military. Every single province however also has roads and farms, which further boost income.

There's a lot of emphasis on specialization in Shogun2. In Rome every city ca build every building, and thus train every unit. Not so in this game. You have to choose which goes where.

3) perhaps you should look at the info bubble that pops up when you hover your mouse over the respective unit. Or simply select the unit card in question. You're gonna have to get used to it, because there is far less variety in this game. There will be a LOT of Yari Ashigaru, and the way you're playing won't do you well. Time to adapt.
daelin4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #9
udontneed2know
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 14
Unpolished? lmao.

I've never had a single problem with this game. It is incredibly balanced and is a blast to play. Especially in multiplayer Avatar Conquest mode. Love that mode.

I've had this game for months now and never once had it crash. I've had it on and running for 12 hours straight and no problems.
udontneed2know is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #10
Apheirox
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Reputation: 172
Posts: 1,055
Follow-up post.

Like latest poster comments it is in a sense laughable to call the game unpolished. I say in a sense because I will maintain it is partly true; I've run into a few things that can't be said to be 'polished'. Still, I regret putting it that way - to be perfectly honest, I was a bit upset when I posted and it unfortunately reflected on the content. The vast majority of the game is precisely extremely polished and has, like I said, a fantastic presentation. I judge the game harshly because I have very high expectations for a TW game following Rome (haven't had the pleasure of playing the others yet) which I thought was an extraordinarily good game. I feel that while Shogun 2 improves on many aspects, it has taken a step back in some areas compared to that much older game.
Apheirox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #11
LemmingKing
 
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Reputation: 0
Posts: 6
The only problem I have with the game is that multiplayer freezes everytime - and I mean EVERYTIME - I connect to a host in lobby or on conquest map, I've reinstalled, verified cache, deleted everything in steam folder except the .exe and steamapps folder and still it freezes. All my drivers are up to date and I still cannot find a solution.
LemmingKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 03:29 PM   #12
daelin4
 
daelin4's Avatar
 
Moderator - Total War
Join Date: May 2011
Reputation: 125
Posts: 567
I would call it unevenly polished. There are some things in the game where I go "damn CA sure put effort into this" that is not blatantly obvious, like graphics. There's the economics part where lower taxes = higher growth = actually more tax income than if you did high taxes which = lower growth. There are some parts of the game where detail is abundant, yet other areas you are left baffled at why they didn't spend more time on it (re Realm Divide).

There's judging harshly and there's finding enjoyment in a flawed product. The two are not necessarily incompatible. The only thing that will happen at this point is either CA improves the game or they don't. Neither are in our control. It makes little sense to refuse to enjoy something you already bought, on the principle that it's only partially polished.
daelin4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #13
udontneed2know
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Reputation: 0
Posts: 14
There is no such thing as a perfect game. Especially on the PC. If you want to see unpolished then head directly to the Skyrim forums lol. That is one unpolished game. Games like this have pretty minor flaws when the overall game is as good as it is.
udontneed2know is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012, 04:00 PM   #14
daniu
 
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Reputation: 145
Posts: 1,266
If you want to have an impression about how polished S2 is, play some ETW in comparison. Uglier graphics, worse performance, campaign map lag on certain actions... maybe "polished" doesn't mean the same to everyone, but to me it's a term describing pure superficials.

There are several conceptual changes - as were between all of the older TWs - but many of those are merely a matter of taste. There even were people who wanted the risk-style map from before Rome back... To me it's weird someone would think the short-term/long-term decision of high taxes vs high growth is a design issue. RD is the one of the great dividers in S2, otherwise I'd call the general mechanics very acceptable (and accepted afaict).

The main issues of S2 are still what has always plagued every TW game: late game management is not supported enough by the in-game tools. Turns with a large empire take too long, and you still forget doing stuff you had planned while checking other places multiple times.
daniu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 12:15 AM   #15
kanorain
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Reputation: 8
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by udontneed2know View Post
Skyrim
unpolished game
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
kanorain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Total War: SHOGUN 2


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site Content Copyright Valve Corporation 1998-2014, All Rights Reserved.