CS at IEM and pros opinion about CS:GO

[dbie]

The Intel Extreme Masters Season 6 World Championship is now over but it left us the joy to see how the world of eSports noticed that a 12 year old title was still making people scream and clap with passion on the big stages. Counter-Strike in it's [most] original version, 1.6, had more than 70,000 stream spectators during the final match between ESC Gaming from Poland and Natus Vincere from Ukraine.

http://postimage.org/image/b2an2xjs3/


This is was what some of the most renamed eSports personalities had to say about it through the 5 days of tournament:

Originally Posted by Slasher

More impressive than the 125k viewers watching LoL, is the 30k viewers watching CS 1.6 in English and Russian. That's more than SC2. #IEM

https://twitter.com/#!/Slasher/statu...91131643494400

Originally Posted by Joe Miller

ESC pick up the first game. We have over 50k on the CS stream. Get on it guys! Mirage is coming next! #IEM

https://twitter.com/#!/Joe_Miller/st...17865509191682

Originally Posted by Nix0n

So amazing to see the support from the community on a Saturday morning, over 60,000 viewers on the #IEM final

https://twitter.com/#!/NixHLTVorg/st...26268830810113

Originally Posted by Paul 'ReDeYe' Chaloner

Just been told CS pulled in a max concurrent viewers of 70,000 this morning, congrats Counterstrike viewers, you rock!

https://twitter.com/#!/PaulChaloner/...50649279762432

Originally Posted by djWHEAT

While I'm extremely happy that 1.6 had such an amazing finals, I won't lie the empty hole in my heart for a DM FPS needs filling

https://twitter.com/#!/djWHEAT/statu...38147624022016

Originally Posted by Joe Miller

Im extremely proud at the amount of viewers we have had and the amount of you constantly tuning in to watch 1.6. The numbers were over those of SC2 at points, and that is ♥♥♥♥ING awesome! ------ I had tears in my eyes watching the closing ceremony backstage because im so proud of where the game is, and for how long its been there. The thought of it not being there next year at cebit scares me.

http://www.hltv.org/blog/5013-iem-and-16




Asides from being the most watched FPS game, CS 1.6 is still the game with the highest peaks on Steam:

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/



And... this is what the best CS players have to say about CS:GO on it's current state:


Interview with ESC ICY BOX | kuben

When the season six Intel Extreme Masters World Championship is over, do you fear it has been the last season to feature Counter-Strike 1.6?

I have no fear, because CS:GO is an unplayable game. Everything in there is so random. You don't need to be perfect and train it for hours like in 1.6 to be best. I hope they will develop 1.6 with better graphics, and engine will stay the same. It can't happen, that someone use a bad game as one of the main tournament games.

http://www.hltv.org/news/8228-pre-ie...iew-with-kuben


Interview with ESC ICY BOX | Neo

If CS was to go away would we be seeing you returning on League of Legends?

The game [refering to LoL] is much better than CS:GO

http://www.d-esports.com/4237/esc-ne...ter-than-csgo/


Interview with Na´Vi starix

Counter-Strike: Global Offensive is still in a closed beta phase. You've played the game at DreamHack Winter against fnatic, since then how has the game in your opinion changed over time with the updates and is there a long way till you think it's ready for competitive play in tournaments?

If we are comparing with CS 1.6, I better be silent 8) For me, this game is more like to be compared to Wolfenstein, CSS. When you play the tournament - you have to know that you play better, not that you are winning, because you are luckier. Luck can be compared to random, which we can see in CS:GO.

http://www.hltv.org/news/8237-pre-ie...ew-with-starix


IEM 6 Interview with Tomi 'lurppis' Kovanen from WinFakt (A quick resume even though I recommend you guys to watch the entire iview):

Would you play CS:GO if leagues were to support it?
--- All you do is run and shoot, there are none of the elements that made CS what it is on CS:GO, on top of that they completely butchered the maps, anyone that has seen train knows what I'm talking about. In resume, I prefer not to play than play CS:GO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ts5p0U0GcU



Valve you said you would listen to the community, the 1.6 pros are a huge part of our community and they are obviously not happy with the development of CS:GO, I hope the words Chet said were not a lie and you are looking for a way to get the CS 1.6 pros more involved in the development of CS:GO.



Some more opinions and info:

Tomi 'lurppis' Kovanen's reply to this topic: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...7&postcount=21


SK Gaming's Thorin made a newspost about Lurppis' reply on this topic: http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/390...game_right_now


PC Gamer interview with WinFakt's Lurppis about CS:GO, revealing Valve is not listening to CS pro players: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/13/pr...now-%E2%80%9D/


ESC ICY BOX TaZ Interview on LiveOnThree:
http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/311692027?t=35m30s


Lurppis facing Valve/HPE twitter account that's lying about using feedback from CS 1.6 professionals:
http://pantheones.com.au/news/global...go-on-twitter/


cArn saying no one approached him asking for feedback:
https://twitter.com/#!/cArnCS/status/185771565525381120




.

[var1ables]

I really hope they fly somebody - even heaton or spawn or walle or cArn, somebody - from 1.6 to come and play and give them "our" opinion on the game. They have the CSS guys their shot, and as much as i love volcano he's not quite up to snuff with any of the players i listed, let alone the players who just gave their opinions in OP's post.

The biggest joke, in my opinion, is how absolutely anti-1.6 this forum is when everybody, and i mean everybody, in both communities agree that 1.6 is the better game. Seriously, go read netcode forums they say that they want more 1.6 aspects in their game and admit that 1.6 is clearly better than source.

Basically:
I want valve to really, really, really try to have these guys come out and take their feedback in and make changes effectively. Lurppis, cArn, starix, markeloff etc all have stated they wouldn't mind to see a new game come up and make them switch over but they feel that right now CSGO isn't it, and frankly i agree with them. The game as it is now is not ready in the slightest but it's been getting better every update - i just hope they live up to their promise and listen to both communities before releasing the game.

[mythoughtoncsgo]

I've been following competitive scene since 2002. Believe me, compared to the glory days, those numbers are nothing! I fondly remember when HeatoN, potti, vesslan, and Johnny R was famous. I remember SpawN's cbble demo that made him famous when SpawN was in Matrix team with MegatoN. I also remember when an Asian team called MaveN trashed some of the top teams in Europe (alternate aTTaX and SK). AHH! Those were the glory days.

I completely agree with pros opinion about CS:GO, but I think they should be more constructive. If they just say things like, "No, CS:GO is random, and I won't play it." CS will DIE! Just like competitive Quake scene.

What they have to do is give constructive feedback to the developers. If they truly love Counter-Strike, please please please, be constructive.

[dbie]

Originally Posted by mythoughtoncsgo

I've been following competitive scene since 2002. Believe me, compared to the glory days, those numbers are nothing! I fondly remember when HeatoN, potti, vesslan, and Johnny R was famous. I remember SpawN's cbble demo that made him famous when SpawN was in Matrix team with MegatoN. I also remember when an Asian team called MaveN trashed some of the top teams in Europe (alternate aTTaX and SK). AHH! Those were the glory days.

I completely agree with pros opinion about CS:GO, but I think they should be more constructive. If they just say things like, "No, CS:GO is random, and I won't play it." CS will DIE! Just like competitive Quake scene.

What they have to do is give constructive feedback to the developers. If they truly love Counter-Strike, please please please, be constructive.

Valve is who needs to be close to them, for something they have been playing this game on the highest level for around a decade now.

[Paris.in.Flames]

eh... posting the opinions of the 1.6 pros is great and all, but really? The truth is, those are 4 very biased opinions, and i know i have heard other 1.6 pros say similar things, but it is only because the game feels more like source. Source players would ♥♥♥♥♥ if the game felt more like 1.6 im sure. It seems to me that most people jsut dont want the game to feel any different. I feel like i am in the minority that doesnt mind a new "feeling" game.

What exactly ever made 1.6 inherently more competitive than css? i mean, i played both extensively and it seemed that both had equally competitive qualities... I just dont buy this "it needs to be like 1.6 or it cant be a competitive game" bull♥♥♥♥.

Honestly, half of what people say is wrong in cs:go isnt even a problem. ♥♥♥♥ like, "OMG THEY CHANGED TRAIN" is silly... i mean the dynamics on the map are going to change. and that isnt bad. it just changes how the map is played.

[dbie]

Originally Posted by Paris.in.Flames

eh... posting the opinions of the 1.6 pros is great and all, but really? The truth is, those are 4 very biased opinions, and i know i have heard other 1.6 pros say similar things, but it is only because the game feels more like source. Source players would ♥♥♥♥♥ if the game felt more like 1.6 im sure. It seems to me that most people jsut dont want the game to feel any different. I feel like i am in the minority that doesnt mind a new "feeling" game.

What exactly ever made 1.6 inherently more competitive than css? i mean, i played both extensively and it seemed that both had equally competitive qualities... I just dont buy this "it needs to be like 1.6 or it cant be a competitive game" bull♥♥♥♥.

Honestly, half of what people say is wrong in cs:go isnt even a problem. ♥♥♥♥ like, "OMG THEY CHANGED TRAIN" is silly... i mean the dynamics on the map are going to change. and that isnt bad. it just changes how the map is played.

Do you post in cadred? you sound like one of their butthurt articles. check this out: http://i56.tinypic.com/mvpvlc.jpg

[ombrose]

It doesn't feel like 1.6 or Source really, it feels like L4D.

[mythoughtoncsgo]

Originally Posted by dbie

Valve is who needs to be close to them, for something they have been playing this game on the highest level for around a decade now.

Actually, Valve was in IEM New York talking to the pros. But what's more important is that pros need to exert their opinions to the developers.

[Paris.in.Flames]

Originally Posted by dbie

Do you post in cadred? you sound like one of their butthurt articles. check this out: http://i56.tinypic.com/mvpvlc.jpg

No? and cool. nice screen of the number of spectators... that has nothing to do with my argument. I do think the opinions of 1.6 and css pros are very valuable. don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that some seem to think that 1.6 is the only way to go and wont even give the game a chance.

I think you said it best really.

I completely agree with pros opinion about CS:GO, but I think they should be more constructive. <---- THAT! constructive feedback would be a lot better than what any of those great players have been saying.

[dbie]

Originally Posted by mythoughtoncsgo

Actually, Valve was in IEM New York talking to the pros. But what's more important is that pros need to exert their opinions to the developers.

New York feels now like a long time ago, CS 1.6 had WCG, IEM Kiev, Dreamhack Winter, ASUS and some other tournaments after IEM New York..

Valve needs to have constant communication with the pros and their scene so we can get a nice, well developed game. I feel like the time flies and GO keeps being the same crap we saw in the alpha, even crappier with those changes on the maps.

Paris, theres a reason why CS:S is not huge and barely played competitively. Please stop being butthurts CS:S players and help us get a nice game, not only nice graphics.

[var1ables]

Originally Posted by Paris.in.Flames

eh... posting the opinions of the 1.6 pros is great and all, but really? The truth is, those are 4 very biased opinions, and i know i have heard other 1.6 pros say similar things, but it is only because the game feels more like source. Source players would ♥♥♥♥♥ if the game felt more like 1.6 im sure. It seems to me that most people jsut dont want the game to feel any different. I feel like i am in the minority that doesnt mind a new "feeling" game.

What exactly ever made 1.6 inherently more competitive than css? i mean, i played both extensively and it seemed that both had equally competitive qualities... I just dont buy this "it needs to be like 1.6 or it cant be a competitive game" bull♥♥♥♥.

Honestly, half of what people say is wrong in cs:go isnt even a problem. ♥♥♥♥ like, "OMG THEY CHANGED TRAIN" is silly... i mean the dynamics on the map are going to change. and that isnt bad. it just changes how the map is played.

Welp, i'm going to have to do what i've done every single time somebody says there is no difference between 1.6 and source:
-in source the models are something like 100% bigger than in 1.6, leading to larger hitboxes
- The larger hotboxes, along with the fact that some of the hitboxes overlap in some areas(most notably the chest and head boxes)
-This caused the AK to be totally devastating and the AWP to be equally devastating, as the bigger hitboxes allowed for easy head and body shots causing them to be even more overpowering than in 1.6
- the bigger head hitboxes also produced another thing, the AK(as stated before) being stronger than the m4 as the ak had the 1 shot kill even through head armor, which the m4 did not
- certain objects(barrels, even defuse kits) would prevent you from defusing the bomb or even picking it up
- early in the game the hitboxes would lag slightly behind the player
- the air movement only had 2 settings; 1) totally unusable/unstrafable preventing you from strafing around corners like in 1.6 or 2) phoon style bunny hopping, which had not happened in the original game since 1.3.
- You couldn't spam through anything but some wooden walls - and even then the damage was so little it wasn't that big of a deal. So this led to weird things like where you could wall through the door on nuke but not the wooden crates on dust2.
- the flashes would blind you even if you dodged them by looking away from them
- you could throw grenades in a fashion not even john elway or sandy koufax could. Seriously man, did ANYONE think that throwing grenades from CT spawn to T spawn was GOOD?
- the smoke doesn't immediately pop, meaning that if ANYBODY saw you throw it they would know what your doing before you even had any cover and could just walk up and kill you
- the movement feels remarkably floaty, and you would actually go far past where you would intend. So if you stopped holding W or E or whatever your forward button was you'd go about 5 feet further ahead than where you meant to
- the grenades, much like the grenades in CSGO but to a lesser extent in source, would either be completely devestating or not do any damage.
- the recoil was easier to control and while this should have made it easier for us 1.6 players it actually meant that you could strafe and burst AT THE SAME TIME and hit shots dead on. Not good in the slightest.
- all the maps were pretty terrible, nuke being the least changed but it was still changed enough in areas(most notably the ceiling on upper being glass and flashable) that the dynamics of the map changed greatly and often times the clutter(as stated above) would impact gameplay negatively

I'm sure there are more problems but those are just the ones i could remember off the top of my head.

[LuauDesign]

Maps and movements need HUGE work. Everything else is perfect, it's so close already. Just movements and maps.

[dbie]

Originally Posted by LuauDesign

Maps and movements need HUGE work. Everything else is perfect, it's so close already. Just movements and maps.

You can't tap dude, a lot needs to be improved. The feedback has to go on for a long time to get a nice and stable game to play for more than 2 years.

[var1ables]

Originally Posted by dbie

You can't tap dude, a lot needs to be improved. The feedback has to go on for a long time to get a nice and stable game to play for more than 2 years.

I've been tapping just fine, it's the third shot and the spray that's been bugging me this whole time in the beta, and it doesnt' seem like it's going to change as it seems like i'm the only person who seems to notice this problem.

[Paris.in.Flames]

Originally Posted by var1ables

Welp, i'm going to have to do what i've done every single time somebody says there is no difference between 1.6 and source

Welp, that was enlightening. Interestingly enough though,i am perfectly aware that 1.6 and css are very different and the reasons for those differences. Furthermore, I never claimed they were the same. All you did was point out how the games were different. I simply said that both games are competitive in their own right. Yes css has problems (especially in it's first couple years.)but so does 1.6 in regards to the competitive scene.

You may think that excessive wall spamming lends itself to competitive play, but i dont.

That is just one example of how you listed things that dont necessarily take away from competitive play. Much of what you said is just prefference.