Formations and AE

Bague · 03-27-2012, 11:38 AM

does anyone know exactly how formations and AE interact with each other?

i would have thought that spread out formations are better, but bluejaws 1 shotted my unions like that because he always hit all union members with his laser.

when i used vanguard, only 1 of the first 3 ranks (that are close together) were hit (plus they gained magic evasion), so the fight got from impossible to really easy.

Now i wonder how other formations do against AEs.

BobT36 · 03-27-2012, 02:52 PM

I have found the more spread out ones do help, I usually had people clumped together in Arrow of Athlum, and he'd take out entire groups. However once I used more spread out ones (like Vanguard) he'd only hit a portion of the group, not the entire lot.

With everyone who was able, trained in healing arts, that meant they could revive people and continue fighting easy

Bague · 03-27-2012, 06:23 PM

well in vanguard the first 3 ranks arent spread out at all.

but they do engage from all sides, that helped a lot i think.
In 1 fight though somehow a bystanding union got hit by a laser meant for another union and got completely wiped out, was pretty funny.

BobT36 · 03-28-2012, 04:48 PM

Yep I think the hitting from all sides thing is best, since he only targets a couple of them at a time, (by having to turn completely one way or another.).

And rofl yeah he lazered through all three of mine once I think, (I did him as soon as you unlock additional unions).

Bague · 03-28-2012, 06:50 PM

heh, i restarted because i realized i trained wrong, now i did him as soon as i got the 2 guest parties and it was much easier. Maybe when i have time again ill get cocky and go for the big bird, which i couldnt beat previously.

Anyways, anyone has an opinion on a good sword/shield class for rush?
I really want to try word/shield, but somehow i dont see a class that i like that is using it. Only assassin, but its weapon arts and item arts based, which i dont like.
ATM i am using katana and shield so i can go ninja if i cant make up my mind.

Zloth · 03-28-2012, 08:58 PM

What!? You lay a hand on just one of Big Bird's feathers and you'll have me to answer.... oh! <ahem> I see what you mean.

I pretty much just let the classes fall where they may. If somebody gets a class that will work well for me, like a class that can do an ambush, I'll put that character as the lead for a team.

Tangsta · 04-21-2012, 04:52 AM

Yeah, this has been bothering me as well. I'm 80 hours into this game now and still having trouble dealing with AOE damage. I've tried Vanguard, Batwings and formations which raises mobility, every single one of these formations is susceptible to AOE, there are simply no guarantees. Also doesn't help that Ward skills aren't always available during battle, I went out of my way to make sure each of my union had a guy/gal that could use Wards.

Then again, I've never really tried 5 unions (currently 4 unions - 2x 5-members and 2x 4-members). I'll switch to 5 unions soon, but I doubt it'll help much. Currently trying to take down The Fallen and having a really tough time, my only option atm is to try to upgrade as many of my party's equipment as possible - which is no easy task.

TwRecks · 04-21-2012, 03:16 PM

There are 3 different types of attacks that hit multiple units. There are union attacks, like Poison Gas, that target every unit in a union. There are battlefield attacks, like Arcana or Gae Bolg, that hit everyone. Then there's area attacks, like Caustic Blast, dragon breath attacks, or those hydra lasers. Area attacks hit everything in the attack's specific AoE, regardless of union. Spread out formations like Vanguard and Batwings can really help out against area attacks, as the attack will usually whiff some members. Against union or battlefield attacks, the formation only helps if it increases dodging, blocking, or damage resistance.

Also, for tougher fights (and The Fallen is one of the toughest), you really really really want 5 unions. Bosses can only deadlock 3 unions at once, so if you can keep all 3 alive, you get 2 flank attacks for extra damage and morale. Alternately, you can keep a union or 2 back to Res and/or heal.

Specific to The Fallen, the 2 big challenges are doing enough damage to beat the 10 turn time limit and recovering from Animalcule (silence/paralyze/poison to all) at the end of turn 4. At that point in the game, you only have a few mega damage Unique/Remnant Arts available. Torgal has Lugh's Revenge, David has Ex Machina, and Rush has Omnistrike + possibly Schiavona. Jager will have Beowulf + maybe Schiavona, and Duke of Ghor Belkwinth's Fury if you've been using them (and I'd certainly recommend at least Jager). Finally, Emmy has Hundred Flowers and Irina Omnistrike, but only when their union is critically wounded. The problem with all of these is that they only work if the character is leading a union, so you'll have some leadership decisions to make lol. Getting a few of these off will greatly help your chances.

Edit: I forgot Snowpetal; if Rush has been using Katanas, one handed style, and keeps Nightbloom it will likely be available. Emmy or Irina would need to grind a lot to prepare it before the fight.

Recovering from Animalcule is the other tricky thing. Blocter's union will recover immediately due to the Wonder Bangle, and any dead unions will be cured when they're revived, heh. Throat Salve can let a silenced union unsilence itself; Gaou and Irina start with it and are likely the only 2 characters that will have it by then. Spread those 3 out into different unions just in case.

Finally, remember it's an optional boss in a JRPG (although you'll miss some things if you don't kill it). You're supposed to die miserably the first few times you fight it.

Have fun and good luck.

Tangsta · 04-21-2012, 08:56 PM

Wow, thanks for that Recks. It's just that I've been using Batwings and dragonbreath attacks still destroy my party so it was really disheartening. I'll definitely take your advice for the Fallen.

Zloth · 04-21-2012, 09:52 PM

Fallen is REALLY tough! I tried attacking him a few times in my first play through but it wasn't even close so I skipped the guy. He went down on my second play-through, though. (I was so happy I started a topic here. It's back a few pages now but I did give details on my party and formations.)

Morale is always a big deal in that fight. The Fallen's attacks hurt far more when morale is low.

03-27-2012, 11:38 AM	#1
Bague Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 68 Posts: 921	Formations and AE does anyone know exactly how formations and AE interact with each other? i would have thought that spread out formations are better, but bluejaws 1 shotted my unions like that because he always hit all union members with his laser. when i used vanguard, only 1 of the first 3 ranks (that are close together) were hit (plus they gained magic evasion), so the fight got from impossible to really easy. Now i wonder how other formations do against AEs.

04-21-2012, 04:52 AM	#7
Tangsta Join Date: Apr 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 7	Yeah, this has been bothering me as well. I'm 80 hours into this game now and still having trouble dealing with AOE damage. I've tried Vanguard, Batwings and formations which raises mobility, every single one of these formations is susceptible to AOE, there are simply no guarantees. Also doesn't help that Ward skills aren't always available during battle, I went out of my way to make sure each of my union had a guy/gal that could use Wards. Then again, I've never really tried 5 unions (currently 4 unions - 2x 5-members and 2x 4-members). I'll switch to 5 unions soon, but I doubt it'll help much. Currently trying to take down The Fallen and having a really tough time, my only option atm is to try to upgrade as many of my party's equipment as possible - which is no easy task. Last edited by Tangsta: 04-21-2012 at 04:59 AM.

04-21-2012, 03:16 PM	#8
TwRecks Join Date: Jun 2010 Reputation: 103 Posts: 335	There are 3 different types of attacks that hit multiple units. There are union attacks, like Poison Gas, that target every unit in a union. There are battlefield attacks, like Arcana or Gae Bolg, that hit everyone. Then there's area attacks, like Caustic Blast, dragon breath attacks, or those hydra lasers. Area attacks hit everything in the attack's specific AoE, regardless of union. Spread out formations like Vanguard and Batwings can really help out against area attacks, as the attack will usually whiff some members. Against union or battlefield attacks, the formation only helps if it increases dodging, blocking, or damage resistance. Also, for tougher fights (and The Fallen is one of the toughest), you really really really want 5 unions. Bosses can only deadlock 3 unions at once, so if you can keep all 3 alive, you get 2 flank attacks for extra damage and morale. Alternately, you can keep a union or 2 back to Res and/or heal. Specific to The Fallen, the 2 big challenges are doing enough damage to beat the 10 turn time limit and recovering from Animalcule (silence/paralyze/poison to all) at the end of turn 4. At that point in the game, you only have a few mega damage Unique/Remnant Arts available. Torgal has Lugh's Revenge, David has Ex Machina, and Rush has Omnistrike + possibly Schiavona. Jager will have Beowulf + maybe Schiavona, and Duke of Ghor Belkwinth's Fury if you've been using them (and I'd certainly recommend at least Jager). Finally, Emmy has Hundred Flowers and Irina Omnistrike, but only when their union is critically wounded. The problem with all of these is that they only work if the character is leading a union, so you'll have some leadership decisions to make lol. Getting a few of these off will greatly help your chances. Edit: I forgot Snowpetal; if Rush has been using Katanas, one handed style, and keeps Nightbloom it will likely be available. Emmy or Irina would need to grind a lot to prepare it before the fight. Recovering from Animalcule is the other tricky thing. Blocter's union will recover immediately due to the Wonder Bangle, and any dead unions will be cured when they're revived, heh. Throat Salve can let a silenced union unsilence itself; Gaou and Irina start with it and are likely the only 2 characters that will have it by then. Spread those 3 out into different unions just in case. Finally, remember it's an optional boss in a JRPG (although you'll miss some things if you don't kill it). You're supposed to die miserably the first few times you fight it. Have fun and good luck. Last edited by TwRecks: 04-21-2012 at 04:36 PM.

04-21-2012, 08:56 PM	#9
Tangsta Join Date: Apr 2012 Reputation: 0 Posts: 7	Wow, thanks for that Recks. It's just that I've been using Batwings and dragonbreath attacks still destroy my party so it was really disheartening. I'll definitely take your advice for the Fallen. Last edited by Tangsta: 04-21-2012 at 09:05 PM.

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03-27-2012, 02:52 PM	#2
BobT36 Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 307 Posts: 608	I have found the more spread out ones do help, I usually had people clumped together in Arrow of Athlum, and he'd take out entire groups. However once I used more spread out ones (like Vanguard) he'd only hit a portion of the group, not the entire lot. With everyone who was able, trained in healing arts, that meant they could revive people and continue fighting easy

03-27-2012, 06:23 PM	#3
Bague Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 68 Posts: 921	well in vanguard the first 3 ranks arent spread out at all. but they do engage from all sides, that helped a lot i think. In 1 fight though somehow a bystanding union got hit by a laser meant for another union and got completely wiped out, was pretty funny.

03-28-2012, 04:48 PM	#4
BobT36 Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 307 Posts: 608	Yep I think the hitting from all sides thing is best, since he only targets a couple of them at a time, (by having to turn completely one way or another.). And rofl yeah he lazered through all three of mine once I think, (I did him as soon as you unlock additional unions).

03-28-2012, 06:50 PM	#5
Bague Join Date: Jan 2010 Reputation: 68 Posts: 921	heh, i restarted because i realized i trained wrong, now i did him as soon as i got the 2 guest parties and it was much easier. Maybe when i have time again ill get cocky and go for the big bird, which i couldnt beat previously. Anyways, anyone has an opinion on a good sword/shield class for rush? I really want to try word/shield, but somehow i dont see a class that i like that is using it. Only assassin, but its weapon arts and item arts based, which i dont like. ATM i am using katana and shield so i can go ninja if i cant make up my mind.

03-28-2012, 08:58 PM	#6
Zloth Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 86 Posts: 564	What!? You lay a hand on just one of Big Bird's feathers and you'll have me to answer.... oh! <ahem> I see what you mean. I pretty much just let the classes fall where they may. If somebody gets a class that will work well for me, like a class that can do an ambush, I'll put that character as the lead for a team.

04-21-2012, 09:52 PM	#10
Zloth Join Date: Apr 2009 Reputation: 86 Posts: 564	Fallen is REALLY tough! I tried attacking him a few times in my first play through but it wasn't even close so I skipped the guy. He went down on my second play-through, though. (I was so happy I started a topic here. It's back a few pages now but I did give details on my party and formations.) Morale is always a big deal in that fight. The Fallen's attacks hurt far more when morale is low.