Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2012, 08:19 AM   #91
ACubeGod
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 327
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentFUZZ View Post
Damnit, why did I rep you by mistake?

Yes, some people will be disappointed, but if they have an ounce of sense in their heads, they'll get over it within a matter of a month or less.

You know, the same way that people who disliked hats for whatever reason had to get over it until someone figured out how to disable them client-side. The same people who felt that adding unnecessary cosmetics(and no official method to disable them) to a game with perfect visual design was unfair to them because it was a fairly radical change to a game they had paid for, and enjoyed as-is.
"perfect visual design", what?

Hate to break it to you, but artstyles change, that's just life. Hell, not a single solitary person cared about the quote-unquote "artstyle" of the game before hats were introduced and you know it. Not a single thread was made discussing the art style.

All of it is just a poorly-veiled argument for people to whine about something they can't have, because that's all this is about - People having things other people don't have. And if some people don't have them, then "no one should". This is just the first step of bull.
ACubeGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:24 AM   #92
UnrealCanine
 
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Reputation: 459
Posts: 2,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
Hate to break it to you, but artstyles change, that's just life. Hell, not a single solitary person cared about the quote-unquote "artstyle" of the game before hats were introduced and you know it.



How much you willing to bet?
UnrealCanine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:28 AM   #93
ACubeGod
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 327
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealCanine View Post


How much you willing to bet?
I'd bet $50, but life has thoroughly taught me that I am not a betting man.

By all means, search the long-lost vaults of SPUF to prove me wrong. Mind you, I said "before hats".

Spoiler:
You won't find anything since threads dating back that far have more than likely been deleted.
ACubeGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:34 AM   #94
Schrikvis
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Reputation: 21
Posts: 456
I like my performance; 60fps stable with dx90.
I like my hatless world, without poorly (if even) optimized models for cosmetics.
So please, please just do this; reach out and touch, and make the world a smoother playable place, if you can. (and no, I will not update my pc, as this fix also has competetive benefits; players being able to see the raw character model, players being able to not get distracted by particles or bright paint colors)
Schrikvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:36 AM   #95
Captain M
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Reputation: 1902
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
"perfect visual design", what?

Hate to break it to you, but artstyles change, that's just life. Hell, not a single solitary person cared about the quote-unquote "artstyle" of the game before hats were introduced and you know it. Not a single thread was made discussing the art style.

All of it is just a poorly-veiled argument for people to whine about something they can't have, because that's all this is about - People having things other people don't have. And if some people don't have them, then "no one should". This is just the first step of bull.
* condescendingwonka.jpg*

You do realize the art style and theme were two of the main selling points, along with the emphasis on teamwork and class-based combat, of the game once it became more than a freebie that came with the Orange Box, right? There's a reason they spent years on the art of this game alone. People appreciated it, and just because you didn't notice because you were doing who knows what at release doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Show me proof that George Washington crossed the Delaware. You can't, because any DNA evidence was washed away, and everything else was made after George Washington was a national hero for some time.

And furthermore, art style doesn't change. Name me one other FPS that had its art style change AFTER release. And no, sequels don't count, because you have a choice whether or not to buy a sequel or continue playing the same game you paid money for, while safe under the fact that it wouldn't get changed spontaneously.
Captain M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:46 AM   #96
iridescentFUZZ
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Reputation: 664
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
Hate to break it to you, but artstyles change, that's just life.
What? No they don't. Simply adding hats didn't change the visual design of the game, adding hats that didn't fit the design principles of the game did.

Please, give me a good number of examples(and I mean games that are considered decent at least) where the art style in terms of character visuals has changed as drastically as TF2. Because as far as I know, TF2 is the only 'good' game that allows retro-scifi characters to outfit themselves with completely ridiculous items from tens of other genres without even attempting to get the items to match basic design principles like colour, proportion and complexity of design with the ones common to TF2.

Also, everything Captain M said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
Hell, not a single solitary person cared about the quote-unquote "artstyle" of the game before hats were introduced and you know it. Not a single thread was made discussing the art style.
Riiight. So there'd be just as many casual players and newbies playing TF2 if it had the visual design of TFC, right? It would have exactly the same level of appeal, if not more. Is that what you're saying?

Ever heard of J. C. Leyendecker? Have you ever seen flaming, bright green Dr. Seuss hats and other silly miscellanea in a J. C. Leyendecker illustration?

Have you ever gone through the developer commentary? Here's a little excerpt from the dev commentary

Quote:
10. Visual Clutter

"The challenge of the particle system was to create effects that were fun and visually exciting without being so over the top that no one could read their meaning in the game. In a typical match there are so many effects on screen at the same time that the biggest danger is visual clutter. Therefore the effects were refined so that they would be cleaner and simpler. Those that were most important for gameplay were made easier to see while those that were mainly eye candy were allowed to fall into the background." -Dhabih Eng
Look at the part in red. Now look at unusuals. Now tell me if unusuals make sense.

Now go ahead and tell me that the original visual design was just a mash-up of random ideas and design principles, or none at all.
iridescentFUZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #97
ACubeGod
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 327
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentFUZZ View Post
Look at the part in red. Now look at unusuals. Now tell me if unusuals make sense.

Now go ahead and tell me that the original visual design was just a mash-up of random ideas and design principles, or none at all.
If you're honestly distracted or unfocused due to any unusual (or any hat), then you sir, have ADD/ADHD. You see, I barely notice hats, much less unusuals, because I actually play TF 2 to play TF 2. Maybe it's because I main Medic and thus, I don't have time to stop and admire what hats people wear because I have to make sure I don't get a knife in the back or walk out into a Sniper dot. I don't play TF 2 to try to find justification in my dislike of something to which I can use in a forum post.

So no, it's not visual clutter. There's a difference between a tiny model on top of another model, and the pre-beta TF 2 minigun fire effect.
ACubeGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:56 AM   #98
Mr. Slippyfist
 
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Reputation: 1089
Posts: 3,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam43 View Post
It distracts from gameplay,
When you're driving down the street and you see a man in a hat, do you crash your car due to the distraction?


I bet you do.




P.S. It's not distracting you complaining S.O.B.
Mr. Slippyfist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #99
Captain M
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Reputation: 1902
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippyfist View Post
When you're driving down the street and you see a man in a hat, do you crash your car due to the distraction?


I bet you do.




P.S. It's not distracting you complaining S.O.B.
I would if a miniature solar system was orbiting around his head.
Captain M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:09 AM   #100
ACubeGod
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 327
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
I would if a miniature solar system was orbiting around his head.
...What if that solar system had an Earth, AND WHAT IF SOMEONE ON THAT EARTH WAS WEARING A SOLAR SYSTEM HAT?! AND WHAT IF THAT SOLAR SYSTEM HAD AN EARTH, AND WHAT IF SOMEONE ON THAT EARTH WAS WEARING A SOLAR SYSTEM HAT?!


I SEE EVERYTHING
ACubeGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #101
Captain M
 
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Reputation: 1902
Posts: 6,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
...What if that solar system had an Earth, AND WHAT IF SOMEONE ON THAT EARTH WAS WEARING A SOLAR SYSTEM HAT?! AND WHAT IF THAT SOLAR SYSTEM HAD AN EARTH, AND WHAT IF SOMEONE ON THAT EARTH WAS WEARING A SOLAR SYSTEM HAT?!


I SEE EVERYTHING
The Sun: Ultimate TF2 trader.
Captain M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #102
iridescentFUZZ
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Reputation: 664
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
So no, it's not visual clutter. There's a difference between a tiny model on top of another model, and the pre-beta TF 2 minigun fire effect.
Any visual elements in a game, no matter how nice looking, how little they impact performance, or how little you think they clutter the screen are visual clutter if they do not convey anything gameplay related to someone who sees them.

Unusuals, hats, and paint do not convey anything gameplay related to anyone, barring player identification which basically makes disabling/enabling hats a tradeoff.
iridescentFUZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:22 AM   #103
ACubeGod
 
 
 
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2012
Reputation: 327
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentFUZZ View Post
Any visual elements in a game, no matter how nice looking, how little they impact performance, or how little you think they clutter the screen are visual clutter if they do not convey anything gameplay related to someone who sees them.

Unusuals, hats, and paint do not convey anything gameplay related to anyone, barring player identification which basically makes disabling/enabling hats a tradeoff.
Better remove the skybox texture, and those cows on 2Fort. Hell, let's just remove all the textures on all the maps since they really don't convey anything gameplay related. They are just textures after-all.

...Wait, scratch that. Add a red and blue dot to make sure people know which side is which.

Let's remove visual hitscan bullet effects since we can just use the "ding on sound" and all projectiles would instantly become more recognizable.
ACubeGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:32 AM   #104
iridescentFUZZ
 
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Reputation: 664
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACubeGod View Post
Better remove the skybox texture, and those cows on 2Fort. Hell, let's just remove all the textures on all the maps since they really don't convey anything gameplay related. They are just textures after-all.
Right, because none of the above contribute anything to making the world believable and in line with the time-setting.
There's this little thing called immersion, and most of the above are fairly necessary for immersion. Unusual particle effects and hats aren't.

But sure, go on randomly attempting to point out flaws in my arguments hoping that something will pop up that lends credence to your ill-informed stance.
iridescentFUZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #105
Hmm
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Reputation: 175
Posts: 145
The art style was part of the reason TF 2 got serious recognition in the gaming world. There is even a whole part of the developer commentary (found in the game) dedicated to how they created the unrivaled style of TF 2 and how MUCH thought went into character details and silhouettes. You can not say that art style and gameplay experience are two totally seperated things, as the one is influenced by the other and vice versa. Let me explain (and if I don't do a good job, listen to the developer commentary and what GabeN has to say):

The first and foremost reason different model details and characteristic clothing were made for the 9 classes is to distinguish their team affiliation through the for every class unique blue/red parts in the chest areas, as this area is thought of to be the first one you as a player look at, and the one you look the most, also because you can often find the weapon the enemy is wielding at the moment near that area. This effect is amplified by the brighter colour scheme of blue/red and yellow parts itself as opposed to the darker and less flashy arm, leg and hip parts. The rather colourful and moving effects of unusual hats and the brighter colours of lime green and pink as hell distract the player from what they should actually look at, forcing them to spend more time and energy identifying other players, altering the game play experience (to the worse).

The second reason for the unique mercenary silhouettes is the simple reason of instantly knowing what class is approaching you and what weapon the class is holding at the moment (second point is achieved through unique animations), be it primary, secondary or melee. Extremely big and/or fancy headgear takes away from the silhouettes' distinctness as a whole. Prime examples of cosmetic items that do it right are: The Soldier's Stash, The Heavy Duty Rag, The Trophy Belt, and many of the misc. items.



+1 vote for the cause, against pink scouts with circling TF logos around their head and lime green dapper topper with multicolored confetti coming out of them.


P.S.: And to all those simple minded people thinking I am jealous or something: Look, I have enough money to pay for unusuals, but I don't want to look like a total idiot running around with a burning hat all the time. I want to look good.
Hmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Steam Users' Forums > Steam Game Discussions > T - Z > Team Fortress 2


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site Content Copyright Valve Corporation 1998-2014, All Rights Reserved.