Pointing out what is, in my opinion, a design flaw (spoilers)

brotrrwinner · 04-20-2012, 01:28 PM

In level 6, there's a part where you have to shoot a gargoyle with a fireball in order to proceed (the path has an open pit and shooting the fireball at the gargoyle closes it). There's 2 ways to shoot the fireball: you either cast the fireball spell or use a special sword that shoots fireballs (it has limited charges).
Here's the problem, I don't have enough skillpoints in fire magic to cast the fireball (it requires 13) and even though I got that special sword but I dropped it (didn't need it). SO now I can't proceed. Even if someone didn't get rid of the sword, they could well have used all the charges before figuring out the puzzle.
So this puzzle is not well-designed since, even if you figure out what to do, you may be unable to solve it. Just my opinion

Gibblitz · 04-20-2012, 01:37 PM

It's your fault for dropping it though. Besides, you only need two of the keys on level 6 to proceed, so technically you dont even need to do the halls of fire.

brotrrwinner · 04-20-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibblitz

It's your fault for dropping it though. Besides, you only need two of the keys on level 6 to proceed, so technically you dont even need to do the halls of fire.

I did drop it but how the hell was I supposed to know it was gonna be needed for a puzzle? Or what if I had used all the charges? Yes, this part I'm talking about is not required to finish the game but it's still bad design

SpazMan777 · 04-20-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotrrwinner

I did drop it but how the hell was I supposed to know it was gonna be needed for a puzzle? Or what if I had used all the charges? Yes, this part I'm talking about is not required to finish the game but it's still bad design

That's not bad design at all. You're upset that you can't get into an area you don't need to get in because you made a decision that, at the time, was the best for your party (The way you spent skill points, and dropping the sword for something you thought better).

That's life.

If you meet a girl you like and she likes you but you don't ask her out, that's a missed opportunity based on a decision you made, where at the time, made the most sense. You might beat yourself up afterwards because "what could have happened." But that's the point. Apply that idea to the game. Now it all is clear.

That's life.

If, however, that area were somewhere you NEEDED to go, then absolutely, terrible flaw. But that is not the case, and you're upset over your decision - you shouldn't be upset at a PUZZLE GAME where the intent is to STOP YOU from finding the secrets, not encourage.

Spoiler:
Man, you're gonna be SO upset when you get to the final levels and you don't have an item from Level 2.

cthrive · 04-20-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotrrwinner

In level 6, there's a part where you have to shoot a gargoyle with a fireball in order to proceed (the path has an open pit and shooting the fireball at the gargoyle closes it). There's 2 ways to shoot the fireball: you either cast the fireball spell or use a special sword that shoots fireballs (it has limited charges).
Here's the problem, I don't have enough skillpoints in fire magic to cast the fireball (it requires 13) and even though I got that special sword but I dropped it (didn't need it). SO now I can't proceed. Even if someone didn't get rid of the sword, they could well have used all the charges before figuring out the puzzle.
So this puzzle is not well-designed since, even if you figure out what to do, you may be unable to solve it. Just my opinion

I would agree if the area you want to go in would be necessary to finish the game. But: spoiler: its not. So to get the goodies there (and i cant remember that there was a great goody) you need to skill or to find one of the two fire swords or try a firebomb there.

brotrrwinner · 04-20-2012, 02:30 PM

Firebombs don't work

SpazMan777 · 04-20-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotrrwinner

Firebombs don't work

No they don't

Do you have an earlier save file?

If not, put it out of mind. You may be able to come back later once your mage gets more Fire skill.

brotrrwinner · 04-20-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpazMan777

You may be able to come back later once your mage gets more Fire skill.

Yeah I'm gonna do that, I only need 3 more skillpoints anyway so just one more level to go

callipygous_tp · 04-20-2012, 03:18 PM

If you didn't use the charges on the blade, and have a rough idea of where you dropped it, go back and pick it up. I have yet to see any items disappear from dropping them on the ground. I have stacks of stuff at various crystals along the path down.

Lepinkäinen · 04-20-2012, 03:25 PM

And as a last resort there is another flame sword further down, so a bit backtracking then works as well.

Ben Affleck · 04-20-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotrrwinner

it's still bad design

It's not bad design just because it makes you unhappy. You are entitled to your opinion, which is that it makes you sad that you didn't win at everything (b'aww); you are not entitled to your own facts.

In fact, they purposely made it not gamebreaking, but a bonus, rewarding the player for
A) Spending skill points where they may not plan to, making it a balanced trade off
B) Working out that the sword can do it (and backtracking for it if they are curious enough); another reward for astute problem solving

in other words, it show all the hallmarks of a Good Design ethic. Don't ♥♥♥♥ on the hard work of others because you are in the cream puff. It's childish.

Batty · 04-20-2012, 05:24 PM

The game is too difficult for you so you accuse the devs (smarter, more talented than you) of poor design.

How many games have you designed?

Rotant · 04-20-2012, 08:45 PM

assuming you dropped it on level 6, it wouldn't take very long to systematically search for the sword (dropped items do not disappear in this game).

X25.1 · 04-24-2012, 05:53 AM

I know why can't a game advertised as being oldschool just hold your hand and kiss your booboo's and make your mistakes all better? /sarcasm

Seriously though it's not a design flaw it's just that you made a bad decision. A real design flaw would be a bug that mean you couldn't advance at all, you can most certainly still advance.

There's been things I missed in the game and frustrating parts I couldn't figure out but I don't blame the game for being poorly designed. It's a game which is advertised a being 'oldschool' in the vein of games released 20 years ago today. Things many younger gamers haven't ever played, so they wouldn't understand anyway.

in.meinem.turm. · 04-24-2012, 06:39 AM

That sword was right around the corner. And it is secured in a really mean way so you know this might be important. Chances are you saw the puzzle it is needed for before entering the room with the sword. And even if you used it up there still is a second a bit further down. By that time you know you need it for that puzzle and can go back if you really care for what's behind the iron door. No poor design here. It's optional and you can miss it. So what?

04-20-2012, 01:28 PM	#1
brotrrwinner Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 83 Posts: 1,045	Pointing out what is, in my opinion, a design flaw (spoilers) In level 6, there's a part where you have to shoot a gargoyle with a fireball in order to proceed (the path has an open pit and shooting the fireball at the gargoyle closes it). There's 2 ways to shoot the fireball: you either cast the fireball spell or use a special sword that shoots fireballs (it has limited charges). Here's the problem, I don't have enough skillpoints in fire magic to cast the fireball (it requires 13) and even though I got that special sword but I dropped it (didn't need it). SO now I can't proceed. Even if someone didn't get rid of the sword, they could well have used all the charges before figuring out the puzzle. So this puzzle is not well-designed since, even if you figure out what to do, you may be unable to solve it. Just my opinion

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04-20-2012, 01:37 PM	#2
Gibblitz Join Date: Mar 2010 Reputation: 0 Posts: 11	It's your fault for dropping it though. Besides, you only need two of the keys on level 6 to proceed, so technically you dont even need to do the halls of fire.

04-20-2012, 02:30 PM	#6
brotrrwinner Join Date: Mar 2009 Reputation: 83 Posts: 1,045	Firebombs don't work

04-20-2012, 03:18 PM	#9
callipygous_tp Join Date: Jan 2012 Reputation: 14 Posts: 107	If you didn't use the charges on the blade, and have a rough idea of where you dropped it, go back and pick it up. I have yet to see any items disappear from dropping them on the ground. I have stacks of stuff at various crystals along the path down.

04-20-2012, 03:25 PM	#10
Lepinkäinen Join Date: Jun 2011 Reputation: 142 Posts: 416	And as a last resort there is another flame sword further down, so a bit backtracking then works as well.

04-20-2012, 05:24 PM	#12
Batty Join Date: Oct 2009 Reputation: 12 Posts: 63	The game is too difficult for you so you accuse the devs (smarter, more talented than you) of poor design. How many games have you designed?

04-20-2012, 08:45 PM	#13
Rotant Join Date: Apr 2011 Reputation: 38 Posts: 294	assuming you dropped it on level 6, it wouldn't take very long to systematically search for the sword (dropped items do not disappear in this game).

04-24-2012, 05:53 AM	#14
X25.1 Join Date: Jan 2011 Reputation: 6 Posts: 92	I know why can't a game advertised as being oldschool just hold your hand and kiss your booboo's and make your mistakes all better? /sarcasm Seriously though it's not a design flaw it's just that you made a bad decision. A real design flaw would be a bug that mean you couldn't advance at all, you can most certainly still advance. There's been things I missed in the game and frustrating parts I couldn't figure out but I don't blame the game for being poorly designed. It's a game which is advertised a being 'oldschool' in the vein of games released 20 years ago today. Things many younger gamers haven't ever played, so they wouldn't understand anyway.

04-24-2012, 06:39 AM	#15
in.meinem.turm. Join Date: Feb 2008 Reputation: 387 Posts: 4,278	That sword was right around the corner. And it is secured in a really mean way so you know this might be important. Chances are you saw the puzzle it is needed for before entering the room with the sword. And even if you used it up there still is a second a bit further down. By that time you know you need it for that puzzle and can go back if you really care for what's behind the iron door. No poor design here. It's optional and you can miss it. So what?