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Old 04-22-2012, 09:42 AM   #1
FoolishOwl
 
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Why did Saren need the Conduit in ME 1?

Spoilers for ME 1, obviously.

Throughout the plot for ME 1, Saren is searching for the Conduit. Why? The Conduit allows direct access to the Citadel, bypassing almost all its defenses. Saren needs access to the Citadel to grant Sovereign access to the Citadel's systems, in order to open it to access by the rest of the Reapers.

There are two problems.

First, the Ilos end of the Conduit was underground, and inaccessible to Sovereign; Saren and his Geth escorts apparently reached it on the ground, just as Shepard did. Sovereign and the fleet of Geth ships presumably came through the Mu relay and through the regular mass relay network -- Sovereign didn't emerge within the Presidium. So, Sovereign didn't use the Conduit, and presumably didn't need it.

Second, Saren needed to bypass the Citadel defenses, but he only needed to do so because he had been stripped of his Spectre status and declared an outlaw by the Council. Why had that happened? Because he had attacked Eden Prime with an army of Geth, in order to secure the Prothean beacon, in searching for the Conduit. Had he not attacked Eden Prime, he would still be a Spectre, and he could have walked right into the Council chamber.

In short, it looks like the only reason Saren needed the Conduit, was because of his actions in searching for the Conduit.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:30 AM   #2
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Um, well, *goes back to play ME:1 to see if there is a reason*
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #3
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I just hurt my ears and now you hurt my brain as well? What's with this day?!

As for why, there is none given, not at least according to the wiki nor the game. If the Conduit would've been the only way to enter a closed of space of the Citadel the reason would've obvious, but the Conduit takes you to the monument in the middle of public space, so Saren never really needed it and all of his actions acted against his own goal...

*sees pile of Mass Effect plot holes*

You know... Sweep this one under the carpet, yeah? It's not as if the pile isn't big enough already as it is...
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:00 PM   #4
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I just replayed one not too long ago, And yeah it seemed like he went the long way, but the conduit was supposed to open the portal for Harbringer, And when he used the conduit it activated the Citadel and put it into "transporter" mode to open dark space and allow Harbringer through
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #5
Aemony
 
 
 
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I just replayed one not too long ago, And yeah it seemed like he went the long way, but the conduit was supposed to open the portal for Harbringer, And when he used the conduit it activated the Citadel and put it into "transporter" mode to open dark space and allow Harbringer through
The Conduit has nothing to do with the Citadel as it was merely a prototype of a Mass Relay that the Prothean had created. A one-way one as that.

If I remember it correctly it went something along with the Prothean having created the exit point at the Citadel, the Reapers then attacked and claimed the Citadel as their own. After the Reapers had left and the Citadel was silent once more the Protheans at Virmire/Ilius (or whatever planet the entrance was at) used the entrance point of the relay to get onboard the Citadel and plant a bug in the Citadel systems which would prohibit Sovereign from using the remote control option to activate the Citadel Relay to Dark Space.

Come ~49k years and Sovereign tries to activate the Citadel Relay using the remote control but it doesn't work. He looks for a suitable speices to be controlled to retake the Citadel and finds the Rachni, uses these to wage a war against the Turians, Salarians and Asari but ultimately fails when the Salarians finds and cultivates the Krogan species to a technological advanced level. The Krogans fights of the Rachni and ultimately exterminates them and Sovereign fails. The Krogan Rebellion starts which is after a decade followed by the end of the Rebellion following the Genophage.

700ish years and Sovereign tries again but now with the Turian Spectre Saren to do his bidding, as well as a part of the Geth civilization. Shepard enters the screen and blows Sovereign to hell.

---

None of that really matters though. I can't get over the feel that the Mass Effect triology truly was useless from a story perspective. ME2 was pretty useless in it's own way, ME3 was because nothing really mattered at the end and ME1 was because the very beginning of everything doesn't make much sense.

We've all been trolled...

+10rep @ FoolishOwl, though.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:46 PM   #6
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Yeah, it's a plothole. It's definitely the most criticized thing when it comes to ME1's plot. Still, people love to praise Drew Karpyshyn (ME1 lead writer) like a god and flame Mac Walters (ME3 lead writer) to death.

While Saren most likely couldn't just walk into the citadel tower and operate the control panel without some kind of altercation, the whole search for the conduit is just not at all necessary. He could have easily just used thugs and mercs to secure the tower.

And with no attack on Eden Prime and the events that occur after, there would be significantly less of a naval presence at the citadel. Sovereign could probably even arrive alone and take on the citadel defence fleet and get inside the arms. The only thing that that I can think of is that Sovereign felt the beacon had to be destroyed (hence the attack) so that people wouldn't discover it's warning.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SKiLLY2 View Post
Yeah, it's a plothole. It's definitely the most criticized thing when it comes to ME1's plot. Still, people love to praise Drew Karpyshyn (ME1 lead writer) like a god and flame Mac Walters (ME3 lead writer) to death.
Well, obviously. One plothole (ME1) vs. about seven thousand of them (ME3) gives more appreciation for the former.

I need to replay ME1 again, because I can't remember much of it. Though right now I'm actually watching the Spoiler Warning Let's Play of ME1, they'll most likely touch on that subject.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:55 PM   #8
Michael_IEU
 
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Originally Posted by Aemony View Post
The Conduit has nothing to do with the Citadel as it was merely a prototype of a Mass Relay that the Prothean had created. A one-way one as that.

If I remember it correctly it went something along with the Prothean having created the exit point at the Citadel, the Reapers then attacked and claimed the Citadel as their own. After the Reapers had left and the Citadel was silent once more the Protheans at Virmire/Ilius (or whatever planet the entrance was at) used the entrance point of the relay to get onboard the Citadel and plant a bug in the Citadel systems which would prohibit Sovereign from using the remote control option to activate the Citadel Relay to Dark Space.

Come ~49k years and Sovereign tries to activate the Citadel Relay using the remote control but it doesn't work. He looks for a suitable speices to be controlled to retake the Citadel and finds the Rachni, uses these to wage a war against the Turians, Salarians and Asari but ultimately fails when the Salarians finds and cultivates the Krogan species to a technological advanced level. The Krogans fights of the Rachni and ultimately exterminates them and Sovereign fails. The Krogan Rebellion starts which is after a decade followed by the end of the Rebellion following the Genophage.

700ish years and Sovereign tries again but now with the Turian Spectre Saren to do his bidding, as well as a part of the Geth civilization. Shepard enters the screen and blows Sovereign to hell.

---

None of that really matters though. I can't get over the feel that the Mass Effect triology truly was useless from a story perspective. ME2 was pretty useless in it's own way, ME3 was because nothing really mattered at the end and ME1 was because the very beginning of everything doesn't make much sense.

We've all been trolled...

+10rep @ FoolishOwl, though.
Great.. Now you ruined it for me... Sure your name isn't EAmony??
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:17 PM   #9
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It's been a while since I played ME1 but I always thought the conduit was for bringing the rest of the Reapers in the galaxy.
People kept saying that the reaper invasion had been "delayed" with Sovereign's death on the citadel. I was pretty sure that's what they meant.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:36 PM   #10
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It was to blow citadel control... Damm you didnt saw that cutscene where the Geth were IN the control tower to stop the citadel from closing before sovereign could get in?

That's the reason, they needed to have control on the opening and closing of the citadel.
And the conduit was really close from the citadel tower without counting the surprise effect it would have instead of a frontal attack.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:50 PM   #11
Aemony
 
 
 
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It was to blow citadel control... Damm you didnt saw that cutscene where the Geth were IN the control tower to stop the citadel from closing before sovereign could get in?

That's the reason, they needed to have control on the opening and closing of the citadel.
And the conduit was really close from the citadel tower without counting the surprise effect it would have instead of a frontal attack.
The problem still stands: Saren had access to Citadel Control when he was a Spectre and therefor didn't need to use the Conduit. He attacked Eden Prime with the consequence of losing his Specre status, which forced him to use the Conduit, which he just happened to attack Eden Prime for.

The logic is nonsense and reverted, his reason for needing the Conduit was created because of his actions taken when trying to obtain said Conduit. He had no real use for the Conduit until his actions to obtain it left him no other choice.

If Saren never went after the Conduit in the first place this would've happened:
- Saren onboard Sovereign escorts a minor Geth fleet (the amount he used in ME1 isn't required due to the fact that the Citadel isn't protected by a fleet as it was because of Saren's betrayal).
-- The Geth fleet can either position themselves in close proximity to the Mass Relay leading to the Citadel, or they can even follow Saren all the way (he's a Specre, they don't need to answer questions).
- Saren onboard Sovereign docks on the Citadel (no questions asked, also, Sovereign is already within the Citadel arms...).

Does he even need to access Citadel Control at this point? Or even the Geth fleet? Sove.... Ah screw it. Let's redo it as it would most likely take place:
- Saren onboard Sovereign approaches the Citadel, asks for boarding permissions and is allowed. Sovereign then proceeds within the arms of the Citadel, flies directly towards the middle or whatever he needs to go, all while Citadel Defense can't bent a scratch on him.
- Sovereign activates the Dark Space Relay and all hell is unleashed.
- Meanwhile, Shepard arrives at Eden Prime, discovers an ancient Prothean artifact, mistakenly gets in contact with it and is knocked unconscious as a result.
- When Shepard wakes up he learns that the galaxy is under attack from massive synthetic ships which seems to be completely immune to current technology.

All is lost and our cycle has ended with Shepard as being completely useless.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:14 PM   #12
FoolishOwl
 
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If I recall correctly, there was some dialogue near the end (from Liara, I believe), to the effect that while Sovereign was a more powerful warship than any other in known space, even Sovereign could be defeated by the massed fleets of Council Space, which is why Sovereign didn't just fly in through the normal mass relays and make a frontal assault. So, it wasn't so much that Saren needed to use the Conduit, as that Sovereign did. So far, that makes sense; Saren using the Conduit to access the Council Chambers, to open then close the wards, would then be a secondary issue, which makes sense.

The problem is, it doesn't look like Sovereign could have entered the Conduit on the Ilos end, and it doesn't look like Sovereign came out on the Presidium end.

This is more in the line of something that could be swept under the rug, as it could have all been cleared up with a bit of exposition or a slightly different depiction of the Ilos end of the Conduit, and overall it's an oversight about the mechanics of the situation; the resolution was consistent with the characters and setting, which is the important part.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #13
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Wait... did Saren even know what the Conduit was in the first place?
We didn't learn what the Conduit was until we actually got to Ilos, and Saren knew as much as we did since he had access to the same beacons (plus the Thorian and Sovereign, whatever info they had on the subject.)

Saren needed that beacon on Eden Prime for some reason. Perhaps to piece together what he learned from the beacon he had hidden on Virmire. Like Shepard, it could have given him bits and pieces of knowledge, and he needed a second source. And even then, it wasn't a completely detailed thing.

My guess is that Sovereign knew there was a problem with the Keepers. It knew about something being wrong, but not what, exactly. It couldn't just fly to the Citadel unprepared, not knowing what needed to be done to fix things. It needed Saren's ability to do what he wanted without question, but Saren didn't know anything specific either until he went after the beacon. Remember, Saren hadn't factored in Shepard when he attacked Eden Prime. He was to blow the whole colony up, and had he succeeded, he'd have still been a Spectre, the council wouldn't have suspected him, and he would have continued without hindrance.

When the time came, he could have taken over the Citadel from within, thanks to the Conduit, signaled Sovereign to relay in, then close the arms around it to keep it safe while it did what it needed to do.

Last edited by SmellyLethality: 04-22-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #14
Aemony
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by FoolishOwl View Post
If I recall correctly, there was some dialogue near the end (from Liara, I believe), to the effect that while Sovereign was a more powerful warship than any other in known space, even Sovereign could be defeated by the massed fleets of Council Space, which is why Sovereign didn't just fly in through the normal mass relays and make a frontal assault.
However the problems is as following:
- Sovereign wasn't at all phased by the combined assault of the starships in the Citadel Space. In fact, he even went as far as destroying a massive Turian ship by ramming straight into it head on while being under attack.
- The only reason Sovereign was finally destroyed was because he uses a massive amounts of energy to reanimate the dead corpse of Saren and turn it into a full-fledged husk, which he later control. When Shepard destroyed the Saren-turned-husk creature an overload of energy was transferred back to Sovereign and momentarily interrupted all operations as well as killed the shields. It was this that allowed the humans to finally defeat him.

So, this is what Sovereign pretty much achieved at the end of Mass Effect (YouTube clips will confirm this):
- With the help of a Geth fleet he managed to defeat the Citadel Fleet. In the process he destroyed a Truian Cruiser by ramming it straight on without taking damage at all.
- The Alliance Navy's Fifth Fleet as well as Normandy joined the Battle of the Citadel. They combined with the remnants of the Citadel Fleet managed to destroy what was left of the Geth Fleet.
- The remaning ships from both the Fifth Fleet as well as the Citadel Fleet concentrated fire upon a single unit: Sovereign; while he was in direct control of the Saren husk, none the less. Sovereign was completely unphased by this and was even on the verge to win the battle (a SINGLE ship versus a multitude of other ships from all classes, even at least one Dreadnought if the Destiny Ascension was saved). So Sovereign was actually winning and the fleet had begun calling for a retreat (Admiral Hackett told them it was all or nothing); what finally destroyed him was the overloard caused by Shepard destroying the Saren husk.

I was wrong on a point I previously made. The fleet at the Citadel wasn't strengthened but in fact weakened since the Council deployed its fleet to every relay in Citadel space, believing that Saren Arterius wouldn't dare attack the Citadel.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:33 PM   #15
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Wait... did Saren even know what the Conduit was in the first place?
We didn't learn what the Conduit was until we actually got to Ilos, and Saren knew as much as we did since he had access to the same beacons (plus the Thorian and Sovereign, whatever info they had on the subject.)

Saren needed that beacon on Eden Prime for some reason. Perhaps to piece together what he learned from the beacon he had hidden on Virmire. Like Shepard, it could have given him bits and pieces of knowledge, and he needed a second source. And even then, it wasn't a completely detailed thing.

My guess is that Sovereign knew there was a problem with the Keepers. It knew about something being wrong, but not what, exactly. It couldn't just fly to the Citadel unprepared, not knowing what needed to be done to fix things. It needed Saren's ability to do what he wanted without question, but Saren didn't know anything specific either until he went after the beacon. Remember, Saren hadn't factored in Shepard when he attacked Eden Prime. He was to blow the whole colony up, and had he succeeded, he'd have still been a Spectre, the council wouldn't have suspected him, and he would have continued without hindrance.

When the time came, he could have taken over the Citadel from within, thanks to the Conduit, signaled Sovereign to relay in, then close the arms around it to keep it safe while it did what it needed to do.
Sovereign knew exactly what the problem was since he tried to activate the Dark Space Relay a thousand years ago, which didn't work since the Prothean's had enabled a bug or something in the system. This was the very reason Sovereign controlled the Rachni species and waged a galactic war in trying to retake the Citadel.

The sole purpose of the Conduit is to provide a backdoor into the Citadel using the Protheans' prototype Mass Relay device. This "backdoor" of theirs takes you to the Prothean's Relay Monument on the Citadel Presidium (that is, in the middle of the public space).

One could assume that Saren was looking for the Conduit because he needed access to the virtual intelligence stationed there called Vigil. Vigil had, after all, imperative information regarding the interference created by the Protheans that disrupted the signal to the keepers that would otherwise allow the Citadel to become a mass relay. The problem is, however, that there is no sign of Saren ever having spoken with Vigil. Vigil himself only took contact with Shepard and his crew after Vigil was sure that there was no AI or indoctrinated organic among them. It would be unlikely that Saren ever knew of Vigil's existence.

In other words: the sole reason Saren needed the Conduit was to get onboard the Citadel. Nothing more, nothing less. That's hardly something worth destroying a colony for, is it?

Never the less, you can always add the fact that Sovereign could always tell Saren exactly what he needed to know and everything would've been solved a long time ago. Or even yet, the STARCHILD could've interfered whenever he wanted to since he basically is the Citadel.
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