So, how's the MP scene for SupCom2?

[halororor]

Just bought it and I'm interested to play, but I don't want to get into the game if it's just another RTS where everyone uses cheese tactics in every single match, like what is the case in 90% of RTS games.

[abortabortabort]

Are you interested in fun, or more interested in becoming pro at this game? I can offer PvE and PvP, but I might not be much of a challenge.

[Mavericko]

I only play online with friends, so I wouldn't know about public games, however in my, and my friends opinion - supreme commander 1 is better then the second game. The first game was a true sequel to Total Annihilation, the second game changed to much of the core aspects unfortunatly.

[abortabortabort]

Originally Posted by Mavericko

I only play online with friends, so I wouldn't know about public games, however in my, and my friends opinion - supreme commander 1 is better then the second game. The first game was a true sequel to Total Annihilation, the second game changed to much of the core aspects unfortunately.

GPG considers FA to be perfection in the flux flow RTS with discrete tiers. I do too, and probably you do. Therefore, does it make sense to make another game that uses flux/flow and tiers?

[Mavericko]

Originally Posted by abortabortabort

GPG considers FA to be perfection in the flux flow RTS with discrete tiers. I do too, and probably you do. Therefore, does it make sense to make another game that uses flux/flow and tiers?

The goal of a sequel is generally to make it better and add more features, not change the core gameplay, like the huge scale, unique resource system, tiers and so on.

[abortabortabort]

Originally Posted by Mavericko

The goal of a sequel is generally to make it better and add more features, not change the core gameplay, like the huge scale, unique resource system, tiers and so on.

Like how Master of Orion 2 was just an upgraded Master of Orion 1? Like Dune2 was upgrade Dune1? Like Warcraft 3 was upgraded Warcraft 2? They didn't change the 'huge scale' I'm perfectly capable of massing a larg army in supcom2. It just feels smaller because when I tell it to go somewhere, it actually does. FA that doesn't happen, and generally I have to resort to small armies of less than 50 units, built around pushing an experimental.

Supcom2 also is more unique in its resource system. They added RP, to replace tiers. Frankly, I am happy Supcom2 is not to FA like Starcraft 2 is to Starcraft broodwars.

Also, Supcom1 was called the spiritual successor to TA, yet it betrayed many core gameplay elements, like aquatic bases, water based wreckage, wreckage blocking shots and movement, the difficult jump to tier2, LRPC's to break a stand off, necro's, flying construction planes, variable power generation, 10 player max, and more but I know that you know that supcom1 is as much an abomination of TA as supcom2 is of supcom1. Don't kid yourself about the naming convention. Had GPG the rights to the TA franchise, you know they would have named Supcom1 TA2.

[Mavericko]

Of those games I've only played WC3 so can't really say anything about the rest. I don't mean to say that SupCom2 is a bad game, I still love it. All I'm saying is that I feel like it shouldn't be a sequel to SupCom1, it's stuck somewere between the "general RTS genre" and SupCom1.

When I said huge scale, I ment the map size, not the size of the armies, although SupCom1 could have double the size of armies that the second game could.

SupCom2s resource system is so mainstream. Gather up as much mass and energy as possible, and research to unlock units and upgrades, like most RTS out there, the difference is how you get your research. In SupCom1 and TA you could gather up the resources into storage, but you had to have a continues stream of resources cause those stores vanished quickly. Like in SupCom1, your shields and so on will fail if you don't have constant power generation.

What exactly do you mean regarding aquatic bases and so on? I'll be honest, I haven't played TA in a LOOONG time, so I don't remember everything, but both TA and SupCom1 have water factories and water wreckage. Ships sinks to the bottom of the sea in SupCom1.

I don't know what you mean by "difficult" jump to tier 2? I had tier 2 units, or "advanced units" in TA before I even met my first enemy every game.

And yeah, I know SupCom1 would have been called TA2 if they had the name. Chris Taylor said so in an interview when SupCom1 was announced.

Yes, SupCom1 isn't all that TA was, but it's close enough. It's not as big difference between SupCom1 and TA as it is between SupCom1 and 2.

[abortabortabort]

Originally Posted by Mavericko

Of those games I've only played WC3 so can't really say anything about the rest. I don't mean to say that SupCom2 is a bad game, I still love it. All I'm saying is that I feel like it shouldn't be a sequel to SupCom1, it's stuck somewere between the "general RTS genre" and SupCom1.

All the games listed were very much different from the previous games. Most notably, Dune2 was not even called a sequel to Dune, and was one of the earlier RTS's.

Originally Posted by Mavericko

When I said huge scale, I ment the map size, not the size of the armies, although SupCom1 could have double the size of armies that the second game could.

SupCom2 can have unit caps above 1000. SupCom1 can have large unit caps, but if those units are land units, you will have a difficult time moving them. I know SupCom1 had large maps. Having both large maps and small maps make unit balance difficult.

Originally Posted by Mavericko

SupCom2s resource system is so mainstream. Gather up as much mass and energy as possible, and research to unlock units and upgrades, like most RTS out there, the difference is how you get your research. In SupCom1 and TA you could gather up the resources into storage, but you had to have a continues stream of resources cause those stores vanished quickly. Like in SupCom1, your shields and so on will fail if you don't have constant power generation.

I miss storage too. I don't miss adjacency.

Originally Posted by Mavericko

What exactly do you mean regarding aquatic bases and so on? I'll be honest, I haven't played TA in a LOOONG time, so I don't remember everything, but both TA and SupCom1 have water factories and water wreckage. Ships sinks to the bottom of the sea in SupCom1.

There is no floating point defense, there is no floating energy generators (TA you had tidal power generators, and aircraft carriers, and underwater Fusion reactors), no floating metal makers, not UW mex, no UW storage, no mines, and no seaplanes. Again, I might be missing some, but in SupCom1 you cannot really play a good game if there is no land.

Originally Posted by Mavericko

I don't know what you mean by "difficult" jump to tier 2? I had tier 2 units, or "advanced units" in TA before I even met my first enemy every game.

The jump to tier 2 is hard in multiplayer, because if you aren't cranking out samsons, you will get overrun.

Originally Posted by Mavericko

And yeah, I know SupCom1 would have been called TA2 if they had the name. Chris Taylor said so in an interview when SupCom1 was announced.

Yes, SupCom1 isn't all that TA was, but it's close enough. It's not as big difference between SupCom1 and TA as it is between SupCom1 and 2.

Multiplayer wise, no SupCom1 is vastly different than TA. They do share quite a bit it terms of feel and flow, but they really are very different games.

[Mavericko]

How can you have a higher unit cap in SupCom 2? Whenever I've played with my friends, 500 was max. Well yeah, a thousand land units will have problem traveling - it makes sense, but if it's a big open field where you can fit them all, it's not a problem.
The maps in SupCom 2 to me pretty much means I won't ever bother with naval units, except mabye on Seton, since it's such a short distance - it feels like a waste of time. I like trying to sneak in an atlantis close to the enemey base to suprise them, in SupCom2 you can pretty much just send the units from your base and have the same effect.

On another note, I was wrong about the wreckage in SupCom1, forgot it just sank through the seabed, my apologies.

About seaplanes and all that, a lot of it was part of CC that I didn't play much, only a few games with my friends before SupCom1 came out, so don't remember much about CC. I've mostly played vanilla TA and BT.

The jump to advanced units never faced me, I always played Arm and always hade a couple of Brawlers whenever the enemey came.

Regarding TA vs SupCom1 multiplayer, guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one =)

[abortabortabort]

There is some sort of setting you can mess around with in a .ini file in supcom2 to get the unit cap to 1000.

The jump to advanced units is difficult if you are under constant attack or are constantly attacking, and are not playing on a metal world. My favorite map was Lava Run (I think that was it, the narrow lava 2 player one). I haven't found a comparable map in either sequel.

[Mavericko]

Ah okay.

Off the top of my head, I can only remember two maps, and I don't remember the name of either. One of them is a "normal" map, green grass and blue sea - I always started on the west and my opponent on the east. I've only played against the computer on that one.

Oh and I remember the two maps with a sand beach on each side, and a sea in the middle - think there were two versions, different sizes.