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Old 04-24-2012, 12:04 PM   #1
SirActionPants
 
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Weapon Pack: Turning Hated SubClasses into Loved ones!

Hey there folks.

Well, since I completed brainstorming my last weapon pack, the Doppleganger Update, I have, yet again, found myself dreaming of new weapons. I thought I would share them.

The idea for this weapon pack was to think of weapons that would make hated class "stereotypes" viable and loved in general play. The brainstorming session has lead me here, to this strange update where I try to make things people hate into things people both enjoy playing as and having on their team.

The hardest part of the packs is to make the player WANT to use them, without knowing that they are actually now helping the team more. Lets begin!

Turning Battle-Medic into a good thing!

No one likes battle medics. They ignore their main duty and are not very good at what they attempt to do (comparative to other classes). Here is my set to try to make a viable battle medic.

The Productive Pastelvl 6 Medigun
Appearance: (quick little ms paint job)
Applies a self healing regen effect to classes (like the medic) based on duration spent healing them.
Ubercharge applies an area regan (like amputator) at a massively accelerated rate.

No Overheal.
Paste around area makes it easy to follow medic pair.

A idea stolen from my last thread which i'm still playing with, the pate launcer fires a goo which surrounds the target, applying medic like regen to them. It can heal back to full heath, but rather than applying a overheal it simply will store patient regen for a allotted time. Used in conjunction with the primary weapon.

The Traumatic Transfer
lvl 6 Syringe Gun
Adds a "Hippocratic oath" bar. Bar is filled my amount of healing being currently done.
Damage increases based on level of "Hippocratic oath" bar, if filled all the way results in crits.

Low damage with no "Hippocratic oath" bar filling.


Think of it, if you will, as a Phlogistinator but with heals. However, note that the bar 1) cannot be stored and 2) fills with CURRENT HEALS. Thus, the gun only gets a damage boost if patents are currently being regened or directly after a overheal. Overhealing and quick-switching would give it about half or less of the bar, while regen would keep it relatively high if several patients were regened at once.

So what does this solve? Well, players will want extra damage if they are going battle medic, so they will want to heal teammates. They will apply the regen effect and leave to go do whatever they want, allowing them to be rewarded with damage boosts. Furthermore, building a ubercahrge and laying it in a heavily populated area (i.e. comtrol point) will greatly help the battle medic and the team.

The Best Defence
lvl 6 Melee
Upon hit, applies a defensive bonus, and nullifies crits for a short time (to self and patients)
Upon kill, increases regen rate of medic (both self and applied)

Slow swing rate, no random crits.

Taking away a ubersaw from a battle medic is a tall order to fill. It's the weapon of choice for a battle medic because it has a very high risk and reward, something they get obsessed with. So, this idea is to provide a alternative which also helps the team. Acting like a batallion's backup of sorts, the weapon would increase the survivability of the medic, while also applying that survivability to patients. Remember, medics will want to heal then fight for more damage, so this would allow the patients to have defensive buffs and allow the medic to run off and be stupid.

Making the Pocket Medic viable!

Since medic is my main class, it's not suprizing I have many ideas for him. While battlemedics are hated most, pocket medics are also frowned upon. I decided to try to make the idea of a pocket medic at least a bit more fun for the medic and the team.

The Dedicated Doctor
lvl 6 Badge
Attackers who deal damage to medic outlined (like payload cart) to patient.
Patient deals minicrits to attackers while outlined.

Replaces primary weapon.
Only one outline at a time.
[/CENTER]

For those true pocket medics, who never need their gun, trade it in for bonus damage for your patient to save your life. While it is a powerful asset, losing your primary weapon is a huge risk as well. Your patient is sure to love it however.

The Triage
lvl 6 Medigun
Can heal heal three patients at once, if said patients are in close proximity.
Ubercharge allows for full heal rate on all patients and unlimited ammo (patients don't need to reload).

Heal rate of patients is divided by how many patients are being healed.
Cannot control healing of additional patients.

My answer to the pocket medic haling issue. If you dont want to heal other people, the gun will do it for you. Heal rate is 100% medigun stock heal rate on one patient, 50% on two, and 33.3% on 3. However, when used in conjunction with the Dedicated Doctor, the thing would be a beast, allowing for a kind of mobile human defense platform. The ubercharge is there to help your patients deal with attackers.

The Case Study
lvl 6 Melee
Increases heal rate if medigun beam is not broken from target.
slow swing speed, no random crits.
If beam connection is broken, restarts.

Increases the heal rate as long as you pocket the target to past 100%. Helps the team if you use the Triage, since the original beam would still be healing the original target all three targets get increased healing. Breaking the bean would, however, start you at the slow build up process all over again.

Making Revolver Spy Liked!

Spies should be good at one thing: taking out big targets quickly. Many spies instead opt to go enforcer and just start shooting (or god forbid, ambassador). Here is a set to try to rectify this behavior.

The Survivor's Slicer
lvl 6 knife
Adds speed bonus on kill and defensive buff.
Knife is stuck into target, must wait for it to recharge"

Simple idea really. Take out that primary target, and get the hell out of there. Recharge time of knife half that of spycicle.

Back-Peddler's Buddy
lvl 6 SMG
Does high damage if fired while running backwards.
Damage boost if fired immediately after back-stab (boost dependent on dead enemies health).

Low damage if fired running forwards, standing still, or strafing.

To be used in conjunction with the Slicer, the Buddy makes a spy want to get in and out, but deal some mighty fine damage to those who saw the attack. Revolver spies get to blast people like they want to do, but not before they are encouraged to kill a prime target, since the damage duration is dependent on the dead enemies hp.

Battle Engi makes the team smile, and turtle engi gets a friend!

People hate battle engi's because they run off into the fight without helping you build, and because they are battle engies. Gunslinger engineers are a wonderful modification to this problem already, but I wanted to add a little work to it as well, since gunslinger engi's still are not known for their helpfulness to others.

More Hand
lvl 6 Robot hand
Secondary gunslinger allows for double hit rate.
Secondary gunslinger allows for second mini-sentry to be placed.

Replaces secondary weapon slot
Can only be used in conjunction with gunslinger
Lowers reload speed of primary considerably

The engi cuts of his other arm and adds a duel gunslinger combo. Increased melee speed allows for double hit rate on people and buildings, and allows for a second mini-sentry to be placed. Two robo arms make reloading a shotgun difficult however, so primary reload is slowed.

Builder's Buckshot
lvl 6 Blunderbuss
Fires wide shotgun blast which can damage many enemies.
Blast strength dependent on "buildin" bar, which fills with friendly building repairs or enemy building destruction.
"buildin" bar increases movement speed of engineer as it fills

Very long reload.

A hit and run weapon, designed to be used after healing your teammates. Duel gunslinger engineers will run around a base healing buildings or upgrading them, running to enemies, shooting a powerful buckshot, then running back to refill their bar and reload their gun.

Snipers!

You cannot fix snipers.


Thanks for reading! If you have any other subclasses that you hate, post them and ill try to add to the list!

Last edited by SirActionPants: 04-24-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:25 PM   #2
NovaPixel
 
 
 
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Demoknight?
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:26 PM   #3
Rotomthe3rd
 
 
 
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Fix up the Trolldier, that'd be nice. Also Shotgun Heavies could use some love.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:28 PM   #4
DoubleGale
 
 
 
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"let's class roles"

sounds great.

alot of the hate to battle medics, battle spies, ect. isn't neccesarily because they don't have the right tools but because that isn't their job, and other classes would be far more effective.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:41 PM   #5
TheFriendlyCow
 
 
 
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No reload + FAN.

OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD.

Add a kritzkrieg.

ABANDON SERVER!
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:48 PM   #6
Dr. Sandman
 
 
 
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No reload and grenade launcher. RUN! PINKHEARTS RUN!
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:53 PM   #7
Jakefroster1
 
 
 
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The snipers section.
Just.
Have some rep, you earned it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:54 PM   #8
17 Dollars
 
 
 
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Why do people insist on trying to make some sort of Battle Medic set? It is not the Medic's job to fight.

I repeat, combat is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

Am I being clear enough?
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #9
Dvdgg
 
 
 
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The "The best defense might be slightly OP, and, would it have a kill counter like the Eyelander?

Of course sniper can be fixed!
A sniper rifle that, on headshot, fills a bar. Once the bar is full, you could shoot a teammate to give him crots and give you a permanent defensive buff that can be stored, not too high, but enough to allow you survive a bit more.
The downside? 10% slower scoping speed and less damage dealt on bodyshot.
This would encourage being a pro sniper.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:07 PM   #10
Wulfra
 
 
 
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Engineer. Two gunslingers.

Two minisentries. Okay that's pretty op.

Set them conveniently across from each other, so while the enemy focuses on one they get hit by two

Last edited by Wulfra: 04-24-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #11
Trixie Lulamoon
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Dollars View Post
Why do people insist on trying to make some sort of Battle Medic set? It is not the Medic's job to fight.

I repeat, combat is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

It is not the Medic's job.

Am I being clear enough?
It happens anyway, these ideas just make the people who do that more useful. Good for everybody while still allowing those persistant Combat Medics to be of some use to the team.

The double gunslinger would need to get rid of both the Primary and Secondary if it's not going to be OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvdgg View Post
The "The best defense might be slightly OP, and, would it have a kill counter like the Eyelander?

Of course sniper can be fixed!
A sniper rifle that, on headshot, fills a bar. Once the bar is full, you could shoot a teammate to give him crots and give you a permanent defensive buff that can be stored, not too high, but enough to allow you survive a bit more.
The downside? 10% slower scoping speed and less damage dealt on bodyshot.
This would encourage being a pro sniper.
I like this. The Syndey Sleeper should extinguish teammates as well, Sniper is a support class after all.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:08 PM   #12
DualJay
 
 
 
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Oh look, another Slacks thread...

Ohwait. I am disappoint.

I'm sorry, but I hate all of these.

Battle medic CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT BE GOOD!
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:25 PM   #13
Dvdgg
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DualJay View Post
Ohwait. I am disappoint.

I'm sorry, but I hate all of these.

Battle medic CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT BE GOOD!
It depends. I think I'm good with the Ubersaw (so much VSH) and I can aim with the syringe gun. Sometimes, when you happen to join a full team that already has the soldier, demo, scout, pyro and Heavy slots occupied and you have to carry a derp team that don't know how to push a cart, you have to attack with what you have. You have to know when to retreat, when you have to saw, and when you have to spread some AIDS. If you start attacking before the enemy, and he's not an overhealed Heavy, you can win a 1vs1 battle.

But I always prefer to have patients, I only attack when the situation needs it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:32 PM   #14
17 Dollars
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trixie Lulamoon View Post
It happens anyway, these ideas just make the people who do that more useful. Good for everybody while still allowing those persistant Combat Medics to be of some use to the team.
I'm not saying people should stop going Battle Medic altogether. I think of Battle Medics on the same level as Caberman (SJ + Caber) or Trolldier (RJ + GB + PT). While they all are rather ineffective, unless played extremely well, no one can deny that these strange loadouts for Demoman or Soldier completely keep them from doing their job: fighting.

Medics, on the other hand, have a very important role to the team with their healing and Ubercharges. They can make or break pushes, keep a team on its feet, and even decide the whole outcome of the game. This is the class you look at and think "They could potentially make me invincible or give me critical hits!" Or at the very least, heal you, because that's their job.

Now imagine that they don't. They do not perform the basics of their class. The function they revolve around. They make you think you have a Medic when, in all actuality, you really don't.

Fact of the matter: Battle Medic is griefing.

Now, let me step back and justify that last statement. While it's definitely nowhere near the level of griefing as exploiting glitches or hacking, it's still willful misdirection to your teammates. Players are hardwired at this point to think Medic = HEALMEHEALMEHEALME and if you take that away, they will get upset. It's more the letter of the definition than the spirit. I'd like to think that most Battle Medics don't realize this, or at least wait until they have a serious Medic on their team. Or better yet, they could make it clear that they're just doing they're own thing. If their teammates are aware of the Battle Medic's actions, then everyone can keep on keeping on.

Making Battle Medic a viable option would just be confusing as all hell. You wouldn't know if that Medic slot on your team was taken up by one who would heal you or not. While you may say that's comparable to Demoknights or Gunslinger Engineers, it's actually a lot worse because while those Demos will still fight and those Engineers should still have their dispensers and teleporters up, the Medic's main job, as I've stated time and again, is healing.


TL;DR Battle Medic is technically griefing and making it viable would cause confusion.

Last edited by 17 Dollars: 04-24-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:45 PM   #15
Spy-bait
 
 
 
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Not to say there arn't any good idea's in this thread... (The Medigun that grants passive healing instead of overheal, really a neat idea there, and not one that promotes battle medic by itself.... Basically it's for healing the ever love'n crap out of everyone near you, and granting some passive Regeneration based on how long he's been healing you... (Which in the long term might be BETTER than an Overheal, doubly so since this would likely stack with Overheal...)
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