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Old 04-30-2012, 06:37 AM   #61
Unleaded
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by BlueTrin View Post
Am I the only one who was massively disappointed by D3 beta ?
The game felt very bland to me.
I'm sure you weren't the only one, but you were definitely in the minority

Kinda sucks they couldn't get Torchlight 2 out the door before D3. My friends and I, all bought Torchlight 1, but with Diablo 3 coming out, honestly could care less about Torchlight 2. I'm guessing there will be a lot of people who do the same. They are good devs, but competing against the behemoth that is Diablo 3, is just not going to end as well as it could have for them.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Neriot View Post
Unfortunately he's right regarding online play, wdroberts. Character files are stored locally, making it incredibly easy to cheat yourself to glory.

Runic simply don't have the resources to host a secure network of servers, although they have mentioned potentially releasing dedicated server files if there was enough of a demand for them.
Can you point me in the direction where Runic has talked about this? I haven't seen it yet.

In Diablo II, single player and open BNet character files were stored locally (which makes sense). I would be extremely surprised if Torchlight II launches with no server-side network.

It's really not that difficult to implement server-side player files. If the game releases without one, I'll gladly write an open source mod that adds the capability to the game and submit it to Runic. If they can't implement it, I also have the resources to host a closed network myself.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:27 AM   #63
Antonin Artaud
 
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Originally Posted by Unleaded View Post
They are good devs, but competing against the behemoth that is Diablo 3, is just not going to end as well as it could have for them.
I previously thought this, but I now think that releasing in the first few weeks of summer could actually be perfect timing.

6 weeks in, the flaws of D3 will start to be fairly obvious, especially in terms of replayability and the way the RMAH negatively affects some aspects of the multiplayer experience.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:52 PM   #64
{RR}Kumquat.
 
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Originally Posted by wdroberts View Post
There were actually multiple quest givers in Torchlight. In addition to the main quest there were side quests and the procedurally-generated "endless dungeon" (can't remember the official title), which will also be present in Torchlight II. Also, I'm glad that you're planning to play Torchlight II, and that you're not assuming it will have the same problems as Torchlight!
True, but the quests were:
- Go to the same dungeon you were at, with exactly the same creatures, but with 1.5x hitpoints. Find "mysterious object".
- Defeat a special mini-boss in the same dungeon you're playing and randomly encounter.
- Find a special kind of ember in the same dungeon you're already in.

Not really a "quest", but something that you were going to do anyway and gave you some bonuses (increase fame, sometimes items).

In short, they didn't add much.



I had another comparison as well. After playing the D3 beta, one thing I did notice was great high fidelity sounds. The monk and barbarian would thunder with their punches (great with a subwoofer). Enemies would gurgle as they died (although how a dried up skeleton would have any moisture to gurgle perplexed me), etc. The sound landscape of Diablo 3 was significantly more detailed and varied than Torchlight.

Of course, the best moment was when the Templar says, "I've tried to count how many we've killed....but I've lost track". *snicker*.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:45 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Antonin Artaud View Post
I previously thought this, but I now think that releasing in the first few weeks of summer could actually be perfect timing.

6 weeks in, the flaws of D3 will start to be fairly obvious, especially in terms of replayability and the way the RMAH negatively affects some aspects of the multiplayer experience.
I think the replayability of almost any ARPG can be called into question. People know in D3 they will be playing the same game multiple times with an aim to get to inferno to start gathering endgame items. I don't believe TL2 will offer an whole lot more than this.

The fact that D3 allows almost unlimited experimentation means people spend more time in the game playing around with different builds, compared to the "ugh, I want a fire sorc, but I have to build an entirely new character, so I probably wont bother"...

And the multiplayer experience will not suffer due to the RMAH. If anything it will be enhanced. When I have other people in my game how does the fact they purchased their gear negatively impact on my gameplay? The fact they brought decent items increases our chances of killing bosses.
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Old 04-30-2012, 06:39 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Foulplay View Post
And the multiplayer experience will not suffer due to the RMAH. If anything it will be enhanced. When I have other people in my game how does the fact they purchased their gear negatively impact on my gameplay? The fact they brought decent items increases our chances of killing bosses.
The reduced emphasis on pouring skill points into certain skills to maximize DPS/effectiveness means diversity from character to character is primarily in item stats, not different builds. Therefore, items are more important and people want to trade them more, except Blizzard conveniently added a way for items to be sold (and get a cut of the 90% profit of item sale revenue, I'll give you 10% for the grinders' power bills).

I won't go so far as to promote a conspiracy theory, but you've gotta admit the cards stack up oddly...
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:22 PM   #67
Antonin Artaud
 
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but you've gotta admit the cards stack up oddly...
Indeed. And can you connect the dots between D3 being an monetization r&d project which is unashamed about pay-to-win and the fact that of the 60 blizzard north devs there when D2 shipped, a grand total of one remains?

Still the red-headed stepchild of the irvine empire.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:03 AM   #68
Neriot
 
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Originally Posted by wdroberts View Post
Can you point me in the direction where Runic has talked about this? I haven't seen it yet.

In Diablo II, single player and open BNet character files were stored locally (which makes sense). I would be extremely surprised if Torchlight II launches with no server-side network.

It's really not that difficult to implement server-side player files. If the game releases without one, I'll gladly write an open source mod that adds the capability to the game and submit it to Runic. If they can't implement it, I also have the resources to host a closed network myself.
Some relevant posts:

http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtop...=23275#p209692
http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtop...=23182#p208674
http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtop...=23074#p207105
http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtop...=21227#p189029
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:14 AM   #69
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I'm not going to harbor any bias towards people who will be playing D3, but after being a hardcore fan of the original and sequel (expansions included), I feel like D3 was a huge slap in the face for most people coming from D2.

The simple fact that they 'dumbed down' the leveling bored the crap out of me and other than being able to equip different armors, I saw no point to even play the game because it turned purely into mindless hack and slash with next to no people in the game at one time (4...you ing kidding me? Nice backstep from D2...) and the PvP absent except for the 'planned' Arena style.

While the general hack and slash gameplay is still there, all of the supporting mechanics seem like they were gutted, replaced with a bucket of fresh crap and packaged for Blizzard to make $60 per copy off of. It make me really depressed looking back and realizing how long I've waited for such a disappointing game.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:39 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by MauttyKoray View Post
I'm not going to harbor any bias towards people who will be playing D3, but after being a hardcore fan of the original and sequel (expansions included), I feel like D3 was a huge slap in the face for most people coming from D2.

The simple fact that they 'dumbed down' the leveling bored the crap out of me and other than being able to equip different armors, I saw no point to even play the game because it turned purely into mindless hack and slash with next to no people in the game at one time (4...you ing kidding me? Nice backstep from D2...) and the PvP absent except for the 'planned' Arena style.

While the general hack and slash gameplay is still there, all of the supporting mechanics seem like they were gutted, replaced with a bucket of fresh crap and packaged for Blizzard to make $60 per copy off of. It make me really depressed looking back and realizing how long I've waited for such a disappointing game.
I feel the exact same way. Replayability ruined, sub-optimal builds not available. No reason to re-roll another character of the same class. Playing with a friend who picks up the game 6 a month after you will just be a chore because you have no reason to re-roll the same class.

I'm Genuinely sad about the state of D3, but at least we have quite a few ARPG's to look forward to in the next year.

The long wait, just to be slapped in the face just makes me even more bitter against Activision/Blizzard.

TL2, POE, Grim Dawn will be the games that people look back on with fond memories like they did with D2.

Last edited by Minaxter: 05-01-2012 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:53 AM   #71
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Diablo III needs always on connections. That's deal breaker for me.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:46 AM   #72
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Just the customization part threw any appeal for D3 out the window, for me.

I've played T1 a fair amount, and no two playthroughs are the same. Even with the 3 available classes, there's a total of 9 straight paths to choose from, and unlimited variety of the possible outcome with all the skills to choose from. You can even give your character a second weapon set (w toggles between weapon sets), which also opens a world of possibilities (for instance, destroyer with guns as his second weapon set. Initiate battles with guns, switch to melee once your target approaches you).

I know T2 will be worth the money. D3 will probably be $50. Speaking from experience, no game is ever worth $50.

My only concern with T2 at this point is that there might not be proper cheat detection, if any at all (meaning playing with randoms could easily result in someone with weapons that deal 999 dps at lv5). Playing with friends cancels that out entirely, too.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:03 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Unleaded View Post
I'm sure you weren't the only one, but you were definitely in the minority

Kinda sucks they couldn't get Torchlight 2 out the door before D3. My friends and I, all bought Torchlight 1, but with Diablo 3 coming out, honestly could care less about Torchlight 2. I'm guessing there will be a lot of people who do the same. They are good devs, but competing against the behemoth that is Diablo 3, is just not going to end as well as it could have for them.
Yeah this is very true, if they release this before D3, they could have raised some money and get bigger for an eventual Torchlight 3. It is a shame that they release this so close to D3.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:32 AM   #74
Neriot
 
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Originally Posted by BlueTrin View Post
Yeah this is very true, if they release this before D3, they could have raised some money and get bigger for an eventual Torchlight 3. It is a shame that they release this so close to D3.
Runic aren't focusing on short-term, day one sales.
They're expecting that everyone with any interest in the genre will pick it up eventually.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:36 AM   #75
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Jay Willson cool attitude towards ARPG`s and Torchlight 2
http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23343
http://www.gamespot.com/diablo-iii/v...Bounce=6374231

Last edited by gluemchen: 05-01-2012 at 04:39 AM.
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